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On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

residentcontrarian.substack.com

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Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#531

Post by notyourday »

spoonjim wrote: post #519
phkahler wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> But there is a way to improve supply: give dignity to prostitution. Better yet, guys need to learn to be the kind of man women want to fvck. They're not obligated and attraction is non-negotiable. Reality can be harsh. Guys need to treat themselves with dignity and put themselves together.

The problem is that teaching men to become the kind of men that women want to fuck generates pretty toxic men if there isn’t anything beyond the “fuck.“ I really do believe the old model, where you taught men to be the kind of men that women want to marry, is fundamentally different even though sex and marriage are closely related. A 18-21 year old woman looking for a man to spend the rest of her life with is going t…

I find it fascinating that non 18-21 women and especially men know what are the 18-21 women want in a partner.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#532

Post by Manuel_D »

sudosysgen wrote: post #514
jimbokun wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's different from wanting similar outcomes between groups of millions of people, because those almost invariably come from inequality of opportunity. Can you cite any evidence that this is the case? It seems you are simply defining inequality of outcome to mean the same thing as inequality of opportunity at the group level.

Unless you believe there are innate differences between the ability of these groups, then yes the two are logically equivalent. If you don't believe so, I'm not going to get in this debate today.

Or there could be equal ability, but population-wide differences in preferences, demographics, or other factors. Is it your position that men are underrepresented in teaching and nursing because these fields are highly biased against men? Likewise, there's a significant overrepresentation of Asian in tech. Does the fact that tech hotspots like the Bay Area and Seattle metro have higher than average Asian populations have no role in this disparity?

Claiming to support equal opportunity while simultaneously asserting that inequity necessarily indicates unequal opportunity amounts to a long-winded way of saying that the goal is equal outcomes.

And saying that unless someone believes in equivalency between equity and equality, then they believe in innate differences between groups is very reductive. There are plenty of factors here: culture, preferences, geography, and more.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#533

Post by toomuchtodo »

phkahler wrote: post #462
toyg wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is no practical way to “tax and redistribute” sex. But there is a way to improve supply: give dignity to prostitution.

>> But there is a way to improve supply: give dignity to prostitution. Better yet, guys need to learn to be the kind of man women want to fvck. They're not obligated and attraction is non-negotiable. Reality can be harsh. Guys need to treat themselves with dignity and put themselves together.

It is arguably less effort to be financially successful and pay for the encounters you're interested in than change your self to meet someone else's ideal, which may or may not lead to said encounters.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#534

Post by imbnwa »

rafaelero wrote: post #458
mancerayder wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think that's the strongest criticism of incels as well; having a romantic and sexual relationship is not a requirement for a happy life. Strongly disagree, unless you have low testosterone. Nowhere on Earth except in possibly some religious circles do people mentally push away and control to the point of elimination from awareness their sexual desires and not suffer for it in some form. You don't need to be a Freu…

I mean, if you apply this same reasoning, then "eating this big mac is extremely necessary unless you have one of these weird genes that makes you not crave these type of foods" becomes also a valid argument. It's not about what humans feel they need, it's about what they can live without without tearing their lives apart.

Not analogus at all, there's a wealth of consumable objects other than a Big Mac to sate your hunger. Setting aside fetishism, there's really just one object that sates sexual drive and that's a human being. Or do you think a sex doll is an adequate substitute with no second-order effects?

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#535

Post by blacktriangle »

908B64B197 wrote: post #423
waythro123123 wrote: post #52

My pet theory is that the developed or post-industrialized world is becoming increasingly two-classed. I have had the privilege of having a decent job (being so-called "economically desirable") and decent education and was able to find someone who I think loves me for who I am, for some definition of "I am". That being said, the "incel" problem concerns me. I think the existence of this entire class of individuals sh…

> Her response was that they had so much "male privilege" and that they have no excuse for underperforming. That, thus, they should still be _ahead_ of women, presumably, despite the goal being that they... shouldn't be. They need to pull themselves up from their bootstraps, and "man up", but we also must remember that "man up" is a problematic term that is part of "toxic masculinity". That made absolutely no sense.

I just read it as "you need to break up with this woman yesterday."

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#536

Post by textgel »

Kaze404 wrote: post #512
textgel wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5nu_INVli0

You can find footage of people defending literally any controversial take you might have. Doesn't mean there are enough subscribers to consider their position.

Never happened > Okay it happened but not that big a deal > etc etc.

These conversations always take such a predictable path.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#537

Post by spoonjim »

notyourday wrote: post #531
spoonjim wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that teaching men to become the kind of men that women want to fuck generates pretty toxic men if there isn’t anything beyond the “fuck.“ I really do believe the old model, where you taught men to be the kind of men that women want to marry, is fundamentally different even though sex and marriage are closely related. A 18-21 year old woman looking for a man to spend the rest of her life with is going t…

I find it fascinating that non 18-21 women and especially men know what are the 18-21 women want in a partner.

I’m not talking about 18-21 year old women now, I’m talking about those who got married when extramarital sex was taboo. The best place I’ve seen to hear about how they chose their spouse is a radio site called StoryCorps.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#538

Post by kingsuper20 »

thrower123 wrote: post #183
iammisc wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Religious couples tend to have the most fulfilling sex lives. Conservative religious couples have the best: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7060099/Highly-reli... Myself, as a highly conservative married man, my findings confirm the daily mail article, esp. when I look at the sex lives of my married friends who were more libertine in their youth. EDIT: A few theories: 1. My wife is not on birth control, whic…

I would suspect that usage of antidepressants is lower in highly religious couples. The one-two combo of antidepressants and hormonal birth control absolutely destroy libido.

Hah. That's an interesting point.

It seems to me that people could stand to turn these issues into sub-issues. I can't see much similarity between undersexed 25 year olds (typically male) and 60 year old couples who are either constructed differently or have health issues.

My main take-away is to heavily invest in sex robots and teledildonics.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#539

Post by willcipriano »

Balgair wrote: post #445
MattGaiser wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am frequently surprised by the number of "dead bedrooms" I know about among friends I originally thought they were mostly an old people thing, but I am hearing more stories about it from friends. And we are mid 20s.

One thing to note is that birth-control may decrease libido in some women. The science is a bit mixed though. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-sex/201902... As for the male side of things, I'm not sure if there is a environmental culprit like birth-control.

Antidepressants and antianxiety medications decrease libido as well.

Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness

#540

Post by globular-toast »

bloak wrote: post #316
twobitshifter wrote: post #136

The average man will go through a period of involuntary celibacy and I don’t believe this is a new thing but we’re now good at labeling. History shows that 80% of women reproduced compared to only 40% of men! https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/women-who-stray/2012... (Note not sure the primary source on this stat, but the general idea is that polygamy was once common leading to fewer men reproducing) We’re doing…

"History shows that 80% of women reproduced compared to only 40% of men!" That doesn't necessarily imply polygamy, and it doesn't necessarily imply "incels". Imagine a society in which women get married at age 16 and typically die during childbirth before they reach the age of 32, and men get married at age 32, if they live that long, which most of them don't, and then get married again when the first wife dies durin…

Sure, but the most powerful men today practise polygamy, so it's pretty likely that has been going on throughout history as well.
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