Earlier quoted context omitted.
> there is no practical way to “tax and redistribute” sex. But there is a way to improve supply: give dignity to prostitution.
That doesn't work out as well as it sounds. Unsuprisingly, the amount of women willing to have sex with strangers for money is relatively low. Studies have shown that legalizing prostitution increases the rate of human trafficking to meet the greater demand. https://orgs.law.harvard.edu/lids/2014/06/12/does-legalized-...
On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness
281–290 of 1001 posts
Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness
#282> I got absurdly lucky when I found my wife, but I spent every day without her more or less miserable. It’s arguable she’s the only reason I’m able to be happy. I imagine some of these men are similar to me in the loneliness and not as lucky in finding someone, and it’s impossible for me to not feel something. This is basically a red flag for any relationship. If the only thing making or allowing a person to be happy…
>This is basically a red flag for any relationship. No it isn't. My grandparents, who were married for 60 years had this mentality. My wife's grandparents, who were married for a similar amount of time, also shared this mentality. My wife's parents still share this mentality (and are obviously completely devoted to one another, which you will notice if you spend about 5 seconds with them). My parents divorced, which…
Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness
#283Earlier quoted context omitted.
>This is basically a red flag for any relationship. No it isn't. My grandparents, who were married for 60 years had this mentality. My wife's grandparents, who were married for a similar amount of time, also shared this mentality. My wife's parents still share this mentality (and are obviously completely devoted to one another, which you will notice if you spend about 5 seconds with them). My parents divorced, which…
> There is a bizarre (and imo destructive, and toxic) idea that seems to be running through tech especially that devotion to your partner is rooted in "jealousy" I feel like you're responding to a different argument than the one that was posed above. They weren't saying that a deep devotion to your partner is bad at all. They were saying that if you're miserable every moment you're not with your partner, there is lik…
Being measurably happier with a partner in your life is a positive outcome, indeed is one we should all strive for (or why bother)
Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness
#284Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're kind of just arguing past the people in this thread ("these relationships in my life are healthy and not codependent, so codependence is not a problem in relationships"). I would also argue that your takes offer the same "armchair psychoanalysis" you're arguing against, fwiw. > If we're redefining romantic devotion as an "addiction" then I think we have officially lost the plot. No one is redefining anything.…
When you use the word "codependent", what do you mean?
> Commonly observable characteristics of codependency are:
> intense and unstable interpersonal relationships
> *inability to tolerate being alone, accompanied by frantic efforts to avoid being alone*
> ...
Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness
#285Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah people who say this are so wrong, companionship and a significant other is a required for a fulfilled life for a majority of people. We evolved to have this, and most people need it. You shouldn’t depend on one for happiness, but there is nothing wrong or weird about longing for one.
On the flip side, however, no one owes you companionship or a relationship (platonic or not). If you are struggling to fulfill that need, it's on you to improve yourself through building skills, seeking therapy, finding appropriate medications, or whatever else. Pushing the blame outwards to some other group for not bending to fulfill your needs is a real problematic stance.
And yet, quite often they need help. Changing one's personality, mastering new skills, etc etc. are not small nor easy steps. And some people may not even be capable of doing them by themselves. So what do they do? They seek out people and go public with their frustration... and they come across two groups: Group A, who call them names and shun them out, and Group B, who claim they understand them and talk with them.... all while telling them things like "Look, it's not your fault, man." "They're all whores", etc. What do you think happens next?
What I am trying to say is, some empathy and understanding would go a long way. I get that some people don't want to help themselves and are beyond saving, but there are many others who just need a small push to improve themselves.
Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness
#286> I got absurdly lucky when I found my wife, but I spent every day without her more or less miserable. It’s arguable she’s the only reason I’m able to be happy. I imagine some of these men are similar to me in the loneliness and not as lucky in finding someone, and it’s impossible for me to not feel something. This is basically a red flag for any relationship. If the only thing making or allowing a person to be happy…
> This is basically a red flag for any relationship. If the only thing making or allowing a person to be happy in life is their partner then something is wrong. Mental health is no joke and not being able to enjoy life is usually a symptom of an underlying cause. Depression is probably the most common but anxiety disorders can be similarly hard. There is a great amount of neuro-diversity in the human species. Some pe…
Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness
#287When was the last time you hear someone mention "masculinity" without "toxic" leading out in front like a particularly ugly hood ornament? With that in mind, what are men going to do around one another, waving this big TOXIC badge around? Men's groups? Derided, often pried apart legally if they reach the level of some kind of club. Nor have individual bonds escaped notice: deep friendship between men, that's largely reformulated as "bromance," because of course men do not understand friendship, we have to make everything they do about the pursuit of sex.
You can hear from many married men about the sudden winnowing of their friendships based on the approval list. If you're a man who is a bachelor, you know that friendships with other bachelor men are different than friendship with married men, and quite a bit of the latter is the approval factor. Acceptable, if barely, would be a "sports bar" with boozy comments to near strangers about the performance of strangers; shallow, not deep.
And so modern society has atomized men. To stretch the metaphor further, we're pretty much only allowed covalent bonds with women. Being single is out. I can't tell you the number of times I have had a co-worker, invariably a woman, say "Don't you want a girlfriend?"
And thus our only real value is to serve as providers to women, if they'll have us. If not, well, we're certainly not supposed to hang out with one another and find other things fulfilling. Once men with such hunger would fork over their dollars at strip clubs; now a new generation has abstracted this away to OnlyFans, in keeping with the general trend that previous person-to-person interaction will eventually attract a corporation which wants to mediate this, for profit.
And the indoctrination goes so deep: Elliot Rodgers, misogynist, right? Kills twice as many men as women, but hey, is it like men count? When was the last time you heard of someone who shot and killed men referred to as a "misandrist"? Please, try to recall.
Frankly, the trend of demonizing men cannot continue forever and I suspect the repercussions will be disliked, but so many seem to focus on staying that particular course, full speed ahead. I'm out of the game myself (one might argue that I never really entered the field), but I cannot help but feel tremendously for the young men today.
Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness
#288I feel a common issue with such "dead bedroom" discussions is the seeming lack of capacity of some parties (including some prominent toplevel comments here) to understand how deep a need for sex many people have. To think sex can be replaced with "strong friendships" is laughable to anyone who actually feels a strong desire for sex. The dead bedroom situations I've seen with my friends (M->F equally as well as F->M)…
I am frequently surprised by the number of "dead bedrooms" I know about among friends, and I sincerely believe the problem is the western world's secretly coy perception of sex. There is a superficial surface level that is extremely wrong (for example, Successful people have sex, the most successful people have the hottest sex with the hottest partners; Sex isn't about planning it's about letting the desire overcome…
I originally thought they were mostly an old people thing, but I am hearing more stories about it from friends. And we are mid 20s.
Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness
#289Earlier quoted context omitted.
>That's one bitter truth about life: (almost) everyone needs some amount of physical intimacy to be happy, but it's not something anyone is entitled to. That's not a truth about life, it's an opinion.
it is, I notice that me or even people in my family who often times tend to show anticonformity behavior need some love. Often times I wonder how would I feel if someone were to hold my hand, or give me a kiss but the feeling goes soon away perhaps dictated by the way I was raised or my own genes (something I'm can't determine since I'm not an expert neither in science or parenting) Just to give you some context I gr…
On the other hand, "but it's not something anyone is entitled to" is fundamentally a statement of opinion, unless it is limited to a specific context like within a specific social system.
Re: On incels, dead bedrooms and the hard problems of loneliness
#290Earlier quoted context omitted.
Another way to phrase the original top comment (which, btw, is very deservedly the top comment): "If you can't be happy on your own, there's no way you'll be happy with a partner." Happiness comes from within. Pegging your happiness on something external to yourself - material wealth, social standing, another human being - is giving away all agency you have over your own happiness.
> Another way to phrase the original top comment (which, btw, is very deservedly the top comment): "If you can't be happy on your own, there's no way you'll be happy with a partner." Why does everyone in this thread like posting definitive statements like this? As if it's universally true? Life isn't as black and white as people like to think. I was not much of a happy person before I found my (now) wife many years a…