Like every supermarket chain in the world?
What stores are you going to that have third party sellers? A better analogy is a mall.
I guess the best analogy would be a department store with third party stands as well as their own label stuff
Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales
361–370 of 466 posts
Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales
#362I'm a third party seller and I just left Amazon. When you buy a book, for example, are you aware that 40% of the sale goes to Amazon? Many sellers sell cheap items at a steep loss just to keep their sale metrics up. A couple bad reviews, etc. and your business is kicked off with little explanation and cold or no way to appeal. Third party sellers are not treated well and I'm not surprised Amazon steals seller data me…
The 40% in a vacuum does not really complete the picture for me. Is it possible to get the same book at a lower price somewhere else? If it were the case why would there not be other retailers undercutting Amazon?
Maybe I am missing some monopoly related issue here, but I would love to know more.
Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales
#363Earlier quoted context omitted.
On the other hand Apple competes hard against Samsung, yet relies heavily on Samsung to build a large part of it's competing products. Although I admit that this might not be as true anymore as it was a few years ago.
Probably because Apple has an army of lawyers to protect against any problems.
This.
Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales
#364The most interesting part of the HN discussion is not about the definition of what Amazon is doing, but the occasional misunderstanding of how large brick and mortar retail businesses operate at scale (see: buying shelf space/payment dependant on sales/etc). There are lots of folks on here that understand what Amazon is doing, less who understand retail businesses mechanisms. I'm not sure what Amazon is doing is lega…
I don't think that's a fair comparison. It would be like if Amazon owned the entire mall, and would kick out competitors and establish their own stores once they become profitable. Amazon is both a retailer in the sense that they sell products, but also owns the entire marketplace as well.
They don’t kick out competitors though, merely open up their own stores. To me (the consumer), that seems fine.
Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales
#365Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's less doing it at "scale" and more doing it as a monopoly/monopsony. Walmart has faced similar questions as well, but as much of a monopoly/monopsony as Walmart is, it's far less than what Amazon is. Moreso in non US advanced countries that actually enforce the anti trust regulations in their laws.
In what market is Amazon a monopoly?
Being strict about the term, none. But "monopoly" has become a colloquialism for "big company (that I don't like)".
Amazon has certainly generated enough bad faith and operates at a large enough scale to galvanize the anti-trust advocates
Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales
#366Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's less doing it at "scale" and more doing it as a monopoly/monopsony. Walmart has faced similar questions as well, but as much of a monopoly/monopsony as Walmart is, it's far less than what Amazon is. Moreso in non US advanced countries that actually enforce the anti trust regulations in their laws.
In what market is Amazon a monopoly?
They are popular, efficient, and usually affordable - if not cheaper than many competing outlets, but I do not see them as a monopoly by definition.
Amazon has made it more convenient to use their services than their competition in many ways, but to my understanding, there are alternatives for just about everything they offer.
Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales
#367Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's less doing it at "scale" and more doing it as a monopoly/monopsony. Walmart has faced similar questions as well, but as much of a monopoly/monopsony as Walmart is, it's far less than what Amazon is. Moreso in non US advanced countries that actually enforce the anti trust regulations in their laws.
> as much of a monopoly/monopsony as Walmart is, it's far less than what Amazon is. Walmart retail sales are significantly larger than Amazon's retail sales. For 2019 (chosen to avoid the disparate impact of pandemic), Walmart sold $514B while Amazon retail sold only $135B first-party and $200B third-party. Given the growth rates, Amazon will pass Walmart, but I don't think Walmart has "far less" power in retail than…
I think mail order and brick&mortar compete in some product segments, but are separate in others. For example, perhaps split off much of grocery and bulky cheap items as well as legally constrained products from WalMart's total (although Amazon is making inroads there).
Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales
#368Earlier quoted context omitted.
I misread the article, and I'll correct the 4 to 2 years now. Income is income though, not sales or payroll which are the expected and manageable operating costs of overhead and human resources. If I win the lottery, almost 50% of my winnings go back to the state, and I haven't even bought anything with those winnings. What's different about Amazon having a banner year?
Because that's how lotteries work in the US. Companies don't have to be behemoths to pay no tax on income. They just have to post no profits by spending all the money they make on opex and capex.
I understand the system, I just want to be clear how broken this is.
Both are windfalls, one gets taxed immediately, the other gets taxed if they don't use up all their profits reinvesting in themselves by the end of the year.
Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales
#369Earlier quoted context omitted.
Store brand products are not new and not the issue. Let's pretend that Costco didn't currently sell vodka at all. If Costco wants to know if they should start selling vodka or bottling their own vodka and selling that they don't have access to the sales data from the liquor store next door to Costco. Amazon is letting other businesses take the risks and using sales data from those businesses to outcompete them.
But Costco does sell Vodka and wouldn't have made that product if Vodka sold 10% of what it actually sells. Because Amazon sells literally everything, is it a crime to do what Costco does, just on a bigger scale? The only end-goal that would actually solve the problem fairly is if companies couldn't sell first-party products (or products from a partner where they have a vested interest in) in their store. If you just…
I feel like people in this thread are being deliberately obtuse. The issue isn't about selling vodka. It isn't about selling store brand alternatives to brand name products. The issue is where Amazon is getting their data from when decided what products to sell and what store brand products to make.
When Costco decides to make a store brand alternative they are using sales data for things they have sold in their store. Amazon is using data for things other people have sold. Amazon is not doing what Costco does.
Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales
#370The most interesting part of the HN discussion is not about the definition of what Amazon is doing, but the occasional misunderstanding of how large brick and mortar retail businesses operate at scale (see: buying shelf space/payment dependant on sales/etc). There are lots of folks on here that understand what Amazon is doing, less who understand retail businesses mechanisms. I'm not sure what Amazon is doing is lega…
It's less doing it at "scale" and more doing it as a monopoly/monopsony. Walmart has faced similar questions as well, but as much of a monopoly/monopsony as Walmart is, it's far less than what Amazon is. Moreso in non US advanced countries that actually enforce the anti trust regulations in their laws.
>but as much of a monopoly/monopsony as Walmart is, it's far less than what Amazon is
I don't believe this to be the case. How is Amazon a monopoly, given the large number of online retailers that continue to be successful?