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Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

economist.com

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Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#161

Post by pvaldes »

capableweb wrote: post #145
pvaldes wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hem, not... this is not how it works in Spain. Maybe a local exception, but not the rule. The law is very clear about it.

If you know some locals who own apartments in the metropolitan areas, many will be open about their different modifications they have done without proper permits, because it's so damn hard to actually get the permits. Yes, the law is very clear about a lot of things, but what happens in reality is often not so clear always.

Building a new house is a different situation than closing your terrace or building a pool and involves much more permits. You will not be allowed to contract tap water, electricity ot a telephone line to have internet without those.

Permits for modifications in extant buildings can be also hard to obtain if the area is historical and buildings are singular, old or protected for some reason. Specially if you want to mess with the load that the structure must stand. Out of this areas there is often a 'permit free' period in Abril-May for doing small repairs and repainting.

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#162

Post by baybal2 »

LaMarseillaise wrote: post #148
baybal2 wrote: post #107

> The lack of liquidity in the financial system then further limits what banks can lend to builders. The massive credit expansion is exactly what you don't want if you want to ease the housing market. The Economist got almost everything in this story wrong. I have personal experience of being to Nigeria a few times on infrastructure subcontract projects. The predominant portion of those abandoned construction sites a…

> Africa needs more factories, more mills, more kilns, more technical know how. Building capital requires financing. Financing depends on trust and stability. From your description, it seems like the issue is an ineffective legal system that allows widespread fraud.

> From your description, it seems like the issue is an ineffective legal system

There are African countries with well functioning legal system.

Widespread fraud is, you know, happens much across the rich world, and victims are usually much the same demographic.

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#163

Post by neither_color »

300africans wrote: post #146
imtringued wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, what those African nations need is a tiny enclave, a special economic zone, that has the rule of law and is kept stable at all costs where western nations can invest as much as they please, while leaving the rest of the country alone so that the rest of the country can catch up to the standard of living of that enclave, without western influence.

Can you give examples of where this has been tried before. Also, this sounds like how we were colonized the first time. Giving enclaves to the French and the British that became staging posts for full colonization

Sounds like he's describing the Chinese model of development. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_economic_zones_of_Chin...

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#164

Post by LaMarseillaise »

sthnblllII wrote: post #160
LaMarseillaise wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Africa needs more factories, more mills, more kilns, more technical know how. Building capital requires financing. Financing depends on trust and stability. From your description, it seems like the issue is an ineffective legal system that allows widespread fraud.

Financing (credit cards, furniture rentals, payday loans, diversity business loans) has not made poor people in rich countries rich. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4LSuZGlqL34 African attitudes and behavior are very different from those of people whose nations have developed technologically in the past 200 years. No amount of loans will teach people how to mix concrete or organize an effective workforce. These are thi…

> Financing (credit cards, furniture rentals, payday loans, diversity business loans) has not made poor people in rich countries rich.

Predatory loans are not the whole picture. Stock markets and business loans have made many poor people rich. I know some of them.

> No amount of loans will teach people how to mix concrete or organize an effective workforce.

Student loans can help here.

> I oppose ensnaring third world nations in debt.

The developed world does not have a monopoly on finance. Credit unions and microcredit are possible anywhere, but nevertheless depend on trust and stability.

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#165

Post by LaMarseillaise »

baybal2 wrote: post #162
LaMarseillaise wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Africa needs more factories, more mills, more kilns, more technical know how. Building capital requires financing. Financing depends on trust and stability. From your description, it seems like the issue is an ineffective legal system that allows widespread fraud.

> From your description, it seems like the issue is an ineffective legal system There are African countries with well functioning legal system. Widespread fraud is, you know, happens much across the rich world, and victims are usually much the same demographic.

No doubt fraud is an issue everywhere. The question is whether it incurs cost on the fraudster. You mentioned people who took the money for construction and disappeared - why were they not sued or prosecuted?

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#166

Post by baybal2 »

LaMarseillaise wrote: post #165
baybal2 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From your description, it seems like the issue is an ineffective legal system There are African countries with well functioning legal system. Widespread fraud is, you know, happens much across the rich world, and victims are usually much the same demographic.

No doubt fraud is an issue everywhere. The question is whether it incurs cost on the fraudster. You mentioned people who took the money for construction and disappeared - why were they not sued or prosecuted?

Fraudsters can equally well disappear in USA or UK, and they certainly do so.

You can't prosecute a man going missing without a trace.

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#167

Post by sthnblllII »

angrais wrote: post #132
zappo2938 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> exploitation by industrialized nations We hear a lot about how China invests billions in Africa building highways and such in order to have influence. I have a conspiracy theory based on stories I heard. It would be nice to know if is true or not. What Americans don't realize is that the Gambino crime family didn't just dissolve, they went to Africa, and they bought rights to natural resources such as coal. They ha…

You do realise Africa is massive and that a family of white, American-Italians wouldn't have much chance causing influence (even with violence) in certain African countries? Not to forget the difference in languages across those countries. So my question is: why do you think the Gambino family moved there and what evidence do you have for your claims?

King Leopold of Belgium and 200 white advisors ruled all of the African Congo with a mostly black army that they assembled.

I can't find anything about the Gambino family having assets in Africa.

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#168

Post by angrais »

sthnblllII wrote: post #167
angrais wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realise Africa is massive and that a family of white, American-Italians wouldn't have much chance causing influence (even with violence) in certain African countries? Not to forget the difference in languages across those countries. So my question is: why do you think the Gambino family moved there and what evidence do you have for your claims?

King Leopold of Belgium and 200 white advisors ruled all of the African Congo with a mostly black army that they assembled. I can't find anything about the Gambino family having assets in Africa.

Great point, though I suspect being a king and having a whole country and army support your colonisation of a country is outside the power of most people.

Edit: I get your point now that the king paid locals to help cause "crimes against humanity" ... I'd say given modern media practices that a mafia don doing something similar would be most difficult.

This thread reminds me of the Netflix TV show Lillyhammer on a smaller scale.

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#169

Post by Causality1 »

polski-g wrote: post #153
klaudius wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not culture. It's poverty + weak states. If you don't live in an advanced organized country and you are poor you have to rely on your local group. How else are you going to survive? If you educate those people, put them in an advanced country and make them well off, you will see individualism appear.

Could also be biological. ie: the Hajnal Line theory.

Aside from being pretty thoroughly disproven, what does the Hajnal line have to do with Africa?

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#170

Post by zappo2938 »

angrais wrote: post #132
zappo2938 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> exploitation by industrialized nations We hear a lot about how China invests billions in Africa building highways and such in order to have influence. I have a conspiracy theory based on stories I heard. It would be nice to know if is true or not. What Americans don't realize is that the Gambino crime family didn't just dissolve, they went to Africa, and they bought rights to natural resources such as coal. They ha…

You do realise Africa is massive and that a family of white, American-Italians wouldn't have much chance causing influence (even with violence) in certain African countries? Not to forget the difference in languages across those countries. So my question is: why do you think the Gambino family moved there and what evidence do you have for your claims?

If I had evidence I sure wouldn't post it from an account with potentially identifiable information. Let's say a New York Times investigative reporter for curiosity did a piece on where the associates of the Gambino family are today, don't be surprised if some of them own legitimate businesses mining and shipping natural resources from Africa. There are lists of associates and they have legitimate businesses that pay taxes. There really aren't secrets here. The activity is above board. So what if they are bribing people in Africa? The FBI doesn't care. The CIA doesn't care. Also, I'm careful about saying 'white, American-Italians' because there are likely dark complexion Sicilian Italians involved too. They are connected to North Africa, a hop skip and a jump away, however, the stories I've heard concern East and Central Africa.
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