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Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

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Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#291

Post by nkrisc »

awillen wrote: post #279
codemac wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's simple, Costco actually buys the inventory, and resells it. There are more advanced kinds of agreements (like buy back X number of coats of you sell less than Y) but that's largely how they operate. Amazon is much more like a digital mall in that they rent out their store features for sellers. However, Amazon would like to be seen by the customer as Costco and this causes dissonance between how they treat seller…

Okay, you've described the business models, but so what? In both cases, they still use the sales data available to them to create and sell their own products at the expense of third party sellers. In Amazon's case, that means diverting customers away from third party listings to their own. In Costco's case, that means making fewer purchases from third party sellers because the amount of shelf space available decrease…

> relationship that they have with third party sellers

There are no third party sellers at Costco, it’s only Costco.

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#292

Post by pixl97 »

LatteLazy wrote: post #63
fnord77 wrote: post #9

"we have a policy against this, but we violate it all the time"

2nd sentence in the article: >“I can’t guarantee you that that policy has never been violated,” 4th sentence in the article: >identifying one case in which an employee used the access to improve sales. So only violated once...

That they are telling us about.

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#293

Post by passivate »

spaceribs wrote: post #7
syshum wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea I am going to go ahead and say No to that.... Amazon has issues, but "nationalizing" it would not ease those issues in fact in most ways it would make them worse.

> Amazon has issues, but "nationalizing" it would not ease those issues in fact in most ways it would make them worse. Change my mind then? What would be worse in that situation?

You said "X would be great" but didn't explain why, so a response like "No, X would be bad" is equally lacking in details. Its hard to discuss anything without an underlying basis for the conversation. There is no precedent for the US government providing services comparable to Amazon at comparable cost/benefit.

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#294

Post by ch4s3 »

TchoBeer wrote: post #126
ch4s3 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most answers are likely exploitative in some way On what basis are you making a claim like that? Toyota sells roughly as may vehicles in the US a Ford and more than the other manufacturers. Their cars are in many ways better than their competitors qualitatively and often cheaper. Do you think they are exploiting people? I could keep listing examples of market leaders that offer better products that are more aligned…

I think what OP means is that amazon is using all the data they have from their storefront to beat everyone in the market, which does seem unfair to me.

I get that, but it doesn't seem any different from any national retailer that sells store brand products along side competitors. I'm not even sure how unique this data is. Every corporation in America has access to relatively detailed data about their competitors' sales. There's a time delay, but know what's selling well is really a small part of executing on go to market strategies.

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#295

Post by ClumsyPilot »

notyourwork wrote: post #189
Gasparila wrote: post #175

Thought exercise because I legitimately struggle with this. Is this fundamentally different than Costco using sales data to choose which Kirkland products to launch/sell? If so, how? If not, then why do we not pursue Costco with the same gusto as Amazon? To me this behavior by Amazon seems worse, but I can't figure out why.

Disclaimer: I'm not a legal expert, just an engineer with my own opinions. I struggle with it as well because conceptually in my mind this is the same as a grocery store using customer buying data to inform itself. Grocery chains have been using private label brands to compete with name brands for years. Check your cereal aisle for the "fruit loops" in the back without a box that are ~50% cheaper than the name brand…

Difference in quantity has a quality all of its own.

There are kinds of behavours that are acceptable for an individual or a single groceries store, but if a large company adopts it across the country and puts it in the policy, then they are beaking the law.

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#296

Post by droopyEyelids »

bogwog wrote: post #257

Isn't it sad that all our tech giants are guilty of anti-competitive behavior? You know, things that are supposedly illegal and should have been stopped by government regulators long ago? It makes me wonder if these American businesses are really so different from the likes of Tencent, Huawei, etc and their ties to the Chinese government. Everyone knows those companies are only as big as they are because of governmen…

I think the difference is that FAANG's regulatory capture isn't an explicit part of how our government works, it's implicit.

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#297

Post by mountainb »

awillen wrote: post #255
legutierr wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This explanation makes the most sense to me, but there is something that you are leaving out. Not only is Amazon a marketplace, but it is THE marketplace. Amazon has an effective monopoly on small-seller logistics and marketplace services in the United States (and many other places), soup-to-nuts. If you are anything other than a massive corporation, any manufacturer that chooses not to sell through Amazon and utiliz…

This just isn't really true. It depends on what type of product you're selling, but there are a huge number of independent ecommerce stores that do extremely well. I sell dog treat mix (coopersdogtreats.com) - I do much better both in terms of margins and overall sales on my own website (with traffic coming primarily via paid FB ads) than on Amazon. That's not even including other huge marketplaces like walmart.com,…

What people kind of miss is that outside of FBA it's the actual logistics companies that are handling the logistics for all merchant fulfilled Amazon sales. The normal logistics companies are also handling a ton of the work involved with getting goods to FBA. There are lots of 3PL solutions that can deliver FBA style performance at a lower cost to the seller. There are other advantages to not using Amazon as a seller or just using Amazon as one additional channel among multiple ones.

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#298

Post by lsaferite »

jasallen wrote: post #205
Gasparila wrote: post #175

Thought exercise because I legitimately struggle with this. Is this fundamentally different than Costco using sales data to choose which Kirkland products to launch/sell? If so, how? If not, then why do we not pursue Costco with the same gusto as Amazon? To me this behavior by Amazon seems worse, but I can't figure out why.

The difference is between retailer and marketplace. Both Amazon and Costco are retailers, and both could use that knowledge to decide what products to self-source for better retail margins. Either way, still a retailer, but maybe also a manufacturer / wholesaler. But Amazon is also a marketplace. In that role it acts as a "rentable retail space". Using the data of the retailers in your marketplace to decide what to m…

So how do you factor in the recent ruling in California?

> An appeals court in California has ruled that Amazon can be held liable for products sold through its marketplace by a third-party seller

That seems to obviate the distinction of 'marketplace facilitator' vs. 'retailer' for them. That makes them much more like Costco with a special relationship with vendors to set up vendor-specific sections in their store.

Personally, I've always detested the 3rd-party market in Amazon and wouldn't mind seeing it go away.

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#299

Post by PoignardAzur »

carlps wrote: post #204
Gasparila wrote: post #175

Thought exercise because I legitimately struggle with this. Is this fundamentally different than Costco using sales data to choose which Kirkland products to launch/sell? If so, how? If not, then why do we not pursue Costco with the same gusto as Amazon? To me this behavior by Amazon seems worse, but I can't figure out why.

I'm not intimately familiar with either side, but I see it as: - Costco buys x amount of product at y price from seller and then sells it in its store. - Amazon provides a platform for sellers to sell with a cut going back to Amazon. There is a fundamental difference between being a retailer and providing a retail platform. All Costco would really have access to is how much they've bought and how that has performed f…

> I'm not intimately familiar with either side, but I see it as: - Costco buys x amount of product at y price from seller and then sells it in its store. - Amazon provides a platform for sellers to sell with a cut going back to Amazon.

This isn't really how it works. Retailers very often have arrangements to defer payments until after the product is sold.

In fact, in France, retail margins are so thin that supermarket chains reportedly make most of their profit by selling the inventory, investing the money in short-term funds, then paying the suppliers one month later and keeping the interest.

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#300

Post by mattmcknight »

raisedbyninjas wrote: post #281
awillen wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This explanation doesn't explain the difference to me at all. Costco can see that vodka sells well, so they can make Kirkland brand vodka. They control the layout of the store, so they can change the layout so people see Kirkland brand first when they get to the liquor section. They know the pricing of other vodkas and which ones sell well, so they can source Kirkland vodka at an ideal price point. None of what you'v…

When Costco sells Kirkland brand vodka and Grey Goose, all bottles of Grey Goose are sold the same way. Costco purchases directly or from a distributor. Grey Goose may or may not pay for shelf space, IDK. Purchasing premium shelf space is a common practice for other retailers and grocers. When Grey Goose is sold on Amazon, either Amazon buys it and re-sells it or Grey Goose sells it through a marketplace account incu…

They don't have two listings though. They list the prices of all sellers in one item, with the lowest price as the default.
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