Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

politico.eu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 466 posts

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#221

Post by baq »

Gasparila wrote: post #175

Thought exercise because I legitimately struggle with this. Is this fundamentally different than Costco using sales data to choose which Kirkland products to launch/sell? If so, how? If not, then why do we not pursue Costco with the same gusto as Amazon? To me this behavior by Amazon seems worse, but I can't figure out why.

Two helpful questions I don’t know answers to, but I’m quite confident that the difference between answers are the crux of the matter:

Who are Costco customers?

Who are Amazon customers?

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#222

Post by dathinab »

tylerrobinson wrote: post #207
MengerSponge wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if a Costco sales rep offered to swap something in your cart with the Kirkland clone, or if they suggested the Kirkland product as you reached to grab something else off the shelf.

Aren't traditional grocery stores doing the same thing but using price, sales, positioning, name, and label imitation? When I reach for Quaker Oatmeal Squares, and Wholesome Oatmeal Squares Cereal is right next to it, for cheaper, also in a blue box?

And they have gotten into lethal trouble because of it, I think there is a ongoing case against Oreo because they abused their market power to affect in shelf positioning in a way which likely counts as unfair/illegal abuse of marked power.

Most important grocery stores and similar are resellers, Amazon is a proxy.

Sure that pretend they sell you things but actually you just buy things through them, not from them. (Except their own products.)

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#223

Post by sfifs »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #123
ghusbands wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody can know for sure. Whether or not they were secretly mining data from AWS servers, they would say they don't and nobody on the outside would be able to tell. Even if it's unlikely, many people are simply choosing not to risk it.

This is at the level of a conspiracy theory right now, and one that doesn't even make any sense. If it were true that Amazon were taking sneaky peeks at data inside AWS related to retailers, and this became public, AWS as a business would be done. The loud banging you'd be hearing would be the door closing as the last customer exited, followed by all the engineering staff who work on AWS as they see the writing on th…

> Why would Amazon look to achieve some marginal advantage in its retail businesses at the risk of a total loss to one of its marquee businesses, AWS? It's an idiotic risk.

There's a pretty obvious way to achieve this risk mitigation which is by spinning off AWS into a completely separate company with separate management accountable to a separate board with separately traded shares and not sharing any offices, employees or infrastructure with Amazon retail.

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#224

Post by selectodude »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #152
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This report has 0 to do with AWS Same company, leadership and culture. If you compete with Amazon, or could compete, it would be pretty stupid to put your jewels on AWS.

On the other hand Apple competes hard against Samsung, yet relies heavily on Samsung to build a large part of it's competing products. Although I admit that this might not be as true anymore as it was a few years ago.

Samsung is a much looser conglomerate than Amazon. Furthermore, their fab division is much larger than their handset division. I imagine all parties have weighed the pros and cons.

Apple continues to actively steer away from Samsung, anyway.

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#225

Post by Manuel_D »

jasallen wrote: post #205
Gasparila wrote: post #175

Thought exercise because I legitimately struggle with this. Is this fundamentally different than Costco using sales data to choose which Kirkland products to launch/sell? If so, how? If not, then why do we not pursue Costco with the same gusto as Amazon? To me this behavior by Amazon seems worse, but I can't figure out why.

The difference is between retailer and marketplace. Both Amazon and Costco are retailers, and both could use that knowledge to decide what products to self-source for better retail margins. Either way, still a retailer, but maybe also a manufacturer / wholesaler. But Amazon is also a marketplace. In that role it acts as a "rentable retail space". Using the data of the retailers in your marketplace to decide what to m…

I'm still not understanding the distinction here. Costco and Amazon both sell company-brand products, alongside non-company products. Costco and Amazon collect and analyze sales data from the sale of both company and non-company products.

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#226

Post by rtsil »

Gasparila wrote: post #175

Thought exercise because I legitimately struggle with this. Is this fundamentally different than Costco using sales data to choose which Kirkland products to launch/sell? If so, how? If not, then why do we not pursue Costco with the same gusto as Amazon? To me this behavior by Amazon seems worse, but I can't figure out why.

I'm not familiar with Costco. Do their sellers operate their own stores inside Costco's premises?

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#227

Post by [deleted] »

_up wrote: post #212
notyourwork wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: I'm not a legal expert, just an engineer with my own opinions. I struggle with it as well because conceptually in my mind this is the same as a grocery store using customer buying data to inform itself. Grocery chains have been using private label brands to compete with name brands for years. Check your cereal aisle for the "fruit loops" in the back without a box that are ~50% cheaper than the name brand…

I am not from the US but I think Amazon has much more market dominance than Costco. If Amazon had 20% market share nobody would mind, but they don't have real competition that comes close.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#228

Post by diab0lic »

rualca wrote: post #151
batty_alex wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a math equation you run through a computer and get a legal result out the other end. Congress (or whatever) could use this measurement as a tool to drive investigations so you can stomp out anti-competitive behavior before it becomes a problem

> It's not a math equation you run through a computer and get a legal result out the other end. Not really. This has zero to do with math. At all. We have a buyer and we have a seller, both the buyer and the seller wish to perform a transaction, but then we have a regulator which arbitrarily wants to force them not to execute said transaction because of reasons. And my question is terribly simple: to those who want t…

> No math, no numbers. I’m asking a very simple question: what then?

The comment you replied to answered your question. The transaction goes through, absolutely no additional regulation or control comes into play at the transaction level.

NOTE: I am not supporting this position, or opposing it. I’m just stating what the gp post said.

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#229

Post by legutierr »

jasallen wrote: post #205
Gasparila wrote: post #175

Thought exercise because I legitimately struggle with this. Is this fundamentally different than Costco using sales data to choose which Kirkland products to launch/sell? If so, how? If not, then why do we not pursue Costco with the same gusto as Amazon? To me this behavior by Amazon seems worse, but I can't figure out why.

The difference is between retailer and marketplace. Both Amazon and Costco are retailers, and both could use that knowledge to decide what products to self-source for better retail margins. Either way, still a retailer, but maybe also a manufacturer / wholesaler. But Amazon is also a marketplace. In that role it acts as a "rentable retail space". Using the data of the retailers in your marketplace to decide what to m…

This explanation makes the most sense to me, but there is something that you are leaving out. Not only is Amazon a marketplace, but it is THE marketplace. Amazon has an effective monopoly on small-seller logistics and marketplace services in the United States (and many other places), soup-to-nuts.

If you are anything other than a massive corporation, any manufacturer that chooses not to sell through Amazon and utilize all or most of its services (marketplace listing, payments, warehousing, delivery) will be at a massive cost disadvantage and will not be able to compete with other sellers that do choose to participate with Amazon.

And more significantly, perhaps, if you don't sell through Amazon's marketplace, you are often unable to compete with Amazon itself.

Re: Amazon knew seller data was used to boost company sales

#230

Post by michael1999 »

Gasparila wrote: post #175

Thought exercise because I legitimately struggle with this. Is this fundamentally different than Costco using sales data to choose which Kirkland products to launch/sell? If so, how? If not, then why do we not pursue Costco with the same gusto as Amazon? To me this behavior by Amazon seems worse, but I can't figure out why.

Costco is a retailer. Amazon claims to be a neutral 3rd party when providing marketplace services to 3rd party sellers. Especially when trying to disclaim product liability. They tried to have it both ways, and now they'll get neither, and deserve it completely.
Post reply on HN