Live data from Hacker News

Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

economist.com

151–160 of 174 posts

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pardon my ignorance, but wouldn't leaving rebar exposed like that lead to corrosion and a weaker structure? Seems like leaving rebar out in the open - literally the top of the building with no shielding - make the foundation for the new floors dangerous?

Why does the integrity of the future floors worry you when the intent was never to add future floors? The intent was simply to make it appear as there was a plan of future floors.

Some commenters mentioned these building owners really do add extra floors in the future. But also, I assume the corrosion would travel down the rebar as well?

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#152
post #6

I have no idea if it is true, but, in Egypt, my guide (who I will say was wonderfully knowledgeable on historic matters), stated that the reason many properties had rebar extending upwards (e.g., it looked like there were more stories to be added) was related to tax policy. I forget the full detail of her explanation, but there was some different kind of tax treatment if the building was "finished," so there were a n…

In India lots of buildings leave rebar open on the top floor/roof because they expect the government to allow them to add a floor in the future. The government often obliges.

I think it's more that people don't have the capital to make a second floor as they're building the first floor. I'm sure regulatory hurdles occur as well. It's common to eventually add a floor or two for rental income. Sometimes, the owner will move to the upper floors for better light, a breeze, and a newer home.

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#153
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived in southern Africa for 14 years, I can confirm that this is tragically common. One big problem is that modern capitalism is intensely individualistic, as is Western culture in general. African culture, on the other hand, is completely community-focussed. The individual does not exist apart from the community (family/village), therefore there is no concept of "private property". This makes for a lot of fr…

It's not culture. It's poverty + weak states. If you don't live in an advanced organized country and you are poor you have to rely on your local group. How else are you going to survive? If you educate those people, put them in an advanced country and make them well off, you will see individualism appear.

Could also be biological. ie: the Hajnal Line theory.

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#154
Portugal has the same thing although I've found there are many more dilapidated ruins/condemned buildings, even right in the center of major cities. Just walk around Porto or Lisbon (you could use google street view), and it won't take long before you see a boarded-up or completely ruined lot/building in the middle of the city. Sometimes these places seem like prime real estate, or you can tell they were incredible properties in their prime. My relatives told me it was because there's no property tax, so there's no cost to letting a property sit idle. Also they described how families will pass down property between generations, often the younger generation moves away, only owning a fraction of the property as it is split between siblings, and then split again between cousins, etc..., until it's left without care takers with a vested interest or willingness to spend on maintenance and improvements. I'm not sure if that's the case, but it seemed like a plausible explanation. You'd think after decades of neglected properties the government would try to change incentives to deal with this. But of course property-related legal/tax changes can be very difficult to pass.

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Africa needs more factories, more mills, more kilns, more technical know how. Also less exploitation by industrialized nations and more leaders who want to improve their country's infrastructure rather than just get into a position of power so they can be a rich king. Western nations will invest in Africa if it gets them something... minerals, oil, other resources. They don't invest in Africa's people, they invest i…

> exploitation by industrialized nations We hear a lot about how China invests billions in Africa building highways and such in order to have influence. I have a conspiracy theory based on stories I heard. It would be nice to know if is true or not. What Americans don't realize is that the Gambino crime family didn't just dissolve, they went to Africa, and they bought rights to natural resources such as coal. They ha…

> They have since the early 2000s become the brokers between natural resources in Africa

Africa is a big place.

Where exactly in Africa? If you have some sources, this sounds like an interesting read.

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#157
post #6

I have no idea if it is true, but, in Egypt, my guide (who I will say was wonderfully knowledgeable on historic matters), stated that the reason many properties had rebar extending upwards (e.g., it looked like there were more stories to be added) was related to tax policy. I forget the full detail of her explanation, but there was some different kind of tax treatment if the building was "finished," so there were a n…

I've seen and heard of this in Mexico and Latin America as well. A lot of US housing styles, such as saltbox and narrow townhouses, are also attempts to game older versions of the tax code

Mansard roofs, also.

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#158

> What is going on? Start with the lack of finance. Many Senegalese developers struggle to obtain loans without hefty collateral. Instead, some start building, hoping to tempt buyers to put down deposits on flats and then use that to help finance the rest of the building. But buyers are wary of making a commitment based on a construction site. These unfinished projects often tie up prime land, too. > For Senegalese h…

The population of Senegal is 13 million, with only 50,000 Europeans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senegal#Ethnic_groups Or 99.6% African. The Top 40 countries by HDI are all European or East Asian (excluding those with oil): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Dev... Why don't countries like Senegal seek to increase their European and East Asian populations until development targets are met? The…

[deleted]

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#159

Portugal has the same thing although I've found there are many more dilapidated ruins/condemned buildings, even right in the center of major cities. Just walk around Porto or Lisbon (you could use google street view), and it won't take long before you see a boarded-up or completely ruined lot/building in the middle of the city. Sometimes these places seem like prime real estate, or you can tell they were incredible p…

It's true in the U.S. as well. There are abandoned buildings all over Los Angeles that are just sitting rotting. Here is one that has been abandoned for years, is burned out, and even sits directly adjacent to a subway station.

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0767918,-118.2916802,3a,75y,...

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#160

> The lack of liquidity in the financial system then further limits what banks can lend to builders. The massive credit expansion is exactly what you don't want if you want to ease the housing market. The Economist got almost everything in this story wrong. I have personal experience of being to Nigeria a few times on infrastructure subcontract projects. The predominant portion of those abandoned construction sites a…

> Africa needs more factories, more mills, more kilns, more technical know how. Building capital requires financing. Financing depends on trust and stability. From your description, it seems like the issue is an ineffective legal system that allows widespread fraud.

Financing (credit cards, furniture rentals, payday loans, diversity business loans) has not made poor people in rich countries rich.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4LSuZGlqL34

African attitudes and behavior are very different from those of people whose nations have developed technologically in the past 200 years. No amount of loans will teach people how to mix concrete or organize an effective workforce. These are things that people either decide to do on their own or have imposed upon them by a colonial power.

I oppose ensnaring third world nations in debt. Either give them free stuff or let them figure civilization out on their own. "We can help them while making money at the same time" is always a veil for exploitation.

Post reply on HN