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Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

economist.com

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Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#131

Post by yonaguska »

Accujack wrote: post #113
oblio wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is common across the developing world. Not a lot of people out of our close to 8 billion can afford such a huge expense in one go.

Even in the US this is the case. Government regulation has outlawed people building incrementally in most cases, so people who can't afford to buy a house generally have to rent forever. Building a house is usually more expensive than buying a similar house, due to building codes, permitting costs, and costs of utility build-out.

Unless you build it yourself.

If you find a house for sale built by the general contractor for themselves, it's probably very well built. In a lot of ways that wouldn't be obvious to the vast majority of people.

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#132

Post by angrais »

zappo2938 wrote: post #123
Accujack wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Africa needs more factories, more mills, more kilns, more technical know how. Also less exploitation by industrialized nations and more leaders who want to improve their country's infrastructure rather than just get into a position of power so they can be a rich king. Western nations will invest in Africa if it gets them something... minerals, oil, other resources. They don't invest in Africa's people, they invest i…

> exploitation by industrialized nations We hear a lot about how China invests billions in Africa building highways and such in order to have influence. I have a conspiracy theory based on stories I heard. It would be nice to know if is true or not. What Americans don't realize is that the Gambino crime family didn't just dissolve, they went to Africa, and they bought rights to natural resources such as coal. They ha…

You do realise Africa is massive and that a family of white, American-Italians wouldn't have much chance causing influence (even with violence) in certain African countries? Not to forget the difference in languages across those countries.

So my question is: why do you think the Gambino family moved there and what evidence do you have for your claims?

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#133

Post by yonaguska »

ralfn wrote: post #83
trymas wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how people can live in such buildings then? I understand about poorer countries with lack of regulations, but have not thought that's possible in Europe. Government should not allow anyone to live or operate in such buildings if they're not up to code and are not finished. How people can get mortgages for such things, or how business can register their offices if building is permanently "under construction"?

I've only been a tourist in Greece, so definitely not an expert, but.... Take your house. Now add some scaffolding for a new floor on top of it. Does it alter the ability or even quality of living in it? It might also help hide the pool, which is also taxed. "Up to code" isn't the same as a safe house. That's just such an american way of looking at issues. All that does is make the legal liability clear. It doesn't m…

Having worked construction in the US, "up to code" does at minimum mean a safe structure. While different municipalities may have extended code to allow for unnecessary regulations- much of the actual core safety stuff is much more strict than what you may see in many developing countries.

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#134

Post by klaudius »

veddox wrote: post #86
Causality1 wrote: post #25

I've heard quite extraordinary stories related to the "grabby kin" problem. Entirely hearsay, but at the same time too common. Most of them keep to a similar theme, that is a combination of entitlement to resources held by your relatives and a lack of emphasis on long-term gains. Probably half of these stories involve someone just getting a small business off the ground and losing it because relatives think they're e…

Having lived in southern Africa for 14 years, I can confirm that this is tragically common. One big problem is that modern capitalism is intensely individualistic, as is Western culture in general. African culture, on the other hand, is completely community-focussed. The individual does not exist apart from the community (family/village), therefore there is no concept of "private property". This makes for a lot of fr…

It's not culture. It's poverty + weak states.

If you don't live in an advanced organized country and you are poor you have to rely on your local group. How else are you going to survive?

If you educate those people, put them in an advanced country and make them well off, you will see individualism appear.

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#135

Post by ddkto »

periheli0n wrote: post #32
rudyfink wrote: post #6

I have no idea if it is true, but, in Egypt, my guide (who I will say was wonderfully knowledgeable on historic matters), stated that the reason many properties had rebar extending upwards (e.g., it looked like there were more stories to be added) was related to tax policy. I forget the full detail of her explanation, but there was some different kind of tax treatment if the building was "finished," so there were a n…

This would never be possible in the UK. Rainwater and sea spray would corrode any exposed rebar away within a few years. In fact, I wonder whether it is such a good idea to build on rebar that has been exposed to the environment for an extended period of time.

when people actually care about protecting the starter bars (exposed rebar to star the next floor), you can cast a very weak concrete (1-2 MPa crushing strength) around them. When construction continues, you just chip out the weak concrete, clean the bars with a wire brush and carry on.

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#136

Post by seg_lol »

DrAwdeOccarim wrote: post #64
infoaddicted wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience living on a Florida key gives me the intuition that that is false, unless by wrap you mean seal

I was unaware of how incredibly destructive the combination of daily, continuous, direct sunlight, humidity, and salt water was until my parents moved to Florida. It's really incredible. A few years and literally every material is mottled and crispy.

The entire state of Florida should be a nature preserve, maybe it already is.

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#137

Post by ricardobayes »

pvaldes wrote: post #130
ricardobayes wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same in Spain. Paperwork surrounding a newly build house costs a lot, up to 25% of the whole project, so in many instances people decide to build illegally. Nobody touches them as it would be a massive political uproar if any ruling political party tried to clean the situation up. Also, if no neighbors 'denounce' an illegal building, it becomes legal after 4 years or so.

Hem, not... this is not how it works in Spain. Maybe a local exception, but not the rule. The law is very clear about it.

https://www.spanishestate.com/resources/tips/1/ otherwise known as Certificado de fuero de ordenación or Certificado de asimilado a fuera de ordenación

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#138

Post by imtringued »

Accujack wrote: post #115
baybal2 wrote: post #107

> The lack of liquidity in the financial system then further limits what banks can lend to builders. The massive credit expansion is exactly what you don't want if you want to ease the housing market. The Economist got almost everything in this story wrong. I have personal experience of being to Nigeria a few times on infrastructure subcontract projects. The predominant portion of those abandoned construction sites a…

>Africa needs more factories, more mills, more kilns, more technical know how. Also less exploitation by industrialized nations and more leaders who want to improve their country's infrastructure rather than just get into a position of power so they can be a rich king. Western nations will invest in Africa if it gets them something... minerals, oil, other resources. They don't invest in Africa's people, they invest i…

Actually, what those African nations need is a tiny enclave, a special economic zone, that has the rule of law and is kept stable at all costs where western nations can invest as much as they please, while leaving the rest of the country alone so that the rest of the country can catch up to the standard of living of that enclave, without western influence.

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#139

Post by quantum_solanum »

febeling wrote: post #40
gpvos wrote: post #2

A few years ago I read an article that argued that one of the best ways to help many African countries would be to send accountants and help set up a cadastre.

That sounds like the conclusion from the book The Mystery of Capital: Why Capitalism Triumphs in the West and Fails Everywhere Else, by Hernando de Soto (2000). In his research he found that the legal system around property was very ineffective for poor people and many developing countries. They followed real life cases trying to bring properties/businesses from the informal sector to being fully registered and taxed…

> Another key element was to open a process to convert squatted land into legal property. Many times formal land ownership was not conforming to lived reality, and some legal title nobody was interested in any longer was blocking legalization of actual use.

the process: https://allthatsinteresting.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads...

Re: Why are there so many unfinished buildings in Africa?

#140

Post by pvaldes »

ricardobayes wrote: post #137
pvaldes wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hem, not... this is not how it works in Spain. Maybe a local exception, but not the rule. The law is very clear about it.

https://www.spanishestate.com/resources/tips/1/ otherwise known as Certificado de fuero de ordenación or Certificado de asimilado a fuera de ordenación

We are not in 70's anymore. I would strongly recommend foreigners planning to buy a house in Spain not to take this for granted and to consult the current law first in https://www.boe.es.

You "can build in the middle of a dry riverbed" (if nobody is watching) is not the same as "you will be allowed to repair" when your house will be flooded six years later. (And it will happen, because this place was called 'las ramblas' for something).

The real state promoter wants your money, not your friendship, so using the services of a professional consultant can save you a lot of future headaches.

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