"Endotheliitis is an immune response within the endothelium in blood vessels, in which they become inflamed. The condition can cause oedema of the surrounding tissue, including the stroma, and can cause irritation and pain. If it is within the cornea, it can result in permanent loss of vision. The condition can be caused by a number of factors, such as mumps and cytomegalovirus under certain circumstances." (Wikipedi…
My blood vessels get inflamed now and then. In Sjogrens world it’s known as a “flare” It’s horrifically painful. There is no sympathy from anyone since you look normal.
SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein Impairs Endothelial Function via Downregulation of ACE2
51–60 of 100 posts
Re: SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein Impairs Endothelial Function via Downregulation of ACE2
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
My spouse, who suffers from an autoimmune disorder, suffered similar symptoms. Severe enough that she won’t be able to get the second dose. My understanding (from her doc) is that this is a known, but uncommon side effect for people with autoimmune conditions.
Does get the uncommon side effects of medication much? Have an autoimmune, and I get most of the rare side effects of medications.
Re: SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein Impairs Endothelial Function via Downregulation of ACE2
#53If this is a function of the spike protein, doesn't that mean the mRNA vaccines cause this effect as well?
So the study indicates that the Spike Protein binds to ACE2 that is found in the membranes of cells located in the lungs, arteries, heart, kidney, and intestines, and down regulates them to the point where it damages your mitochondria in those organs. So according to the research they did, it's not just the virus that can hurt you but the mechanism (Spike Protein) the virus uses to attach to your cells and replicate that can cause this damage.
It is likely that the vaccine itself which holds the mRNA and not the actual Spike Protein or Virus (just the instructions on how to make the Spike Protein) is administered in a intramuscular area of the body (Shoulder Area), never able to live long enough (mRNA dies off quickly) to enter these areas where ACE2 is found (Heart, Lungs, Kidneys, etc). The muscle tissue/cells in the upper arm create some Spike Protein and your immune system basically say WTF is that and kills it long before it can ever reach these organs or areas of the body.
The real Virus typically enters the body through the nose and mouth and heads directly into the sinuses and can spread very quickly to lungs and then move on from there into other organs. If you're someone who is one of the folks (Metabolic Disease, severe autoimmune dysfunction) who might be susceptible to what this study suggests, the vaccine is the way to go since it might give you a better chance to avoid the negative outcome from the Spike Protein affecting ACE2 and then damaging the mitochondria in your Organs cells.
Re: SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein Impairs Endothelial Function via Downregulation of ACE2
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
We are getting close to 2% of the planet having a confirmed case. New influenza vaccines (using cell lines) were approved after use in 15,000 people, ~10 years ago: https://www.fiercepharma.com/vaccines/novartis-receives-fda-... Are you overestimating the safety testing done on other vaccines? Of course these are the first widely used vaccines for corona viruses and use new technologies to boot, so there's a lot more…
> New influenza vaccines (using cell lines) were approved after use in 15,000 people The are several important differences: (1) it took 4 years of data, not 6 months of data like Pfizer, (2) using mature, well known technology. Now, let's compare to a flu vaccine approved with an EUA after 6 months, shall we? https://www.bmj.com/content/362/bmj.k3948 https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/07/why-pandemic-flu-sho... (Bo…
You can't run a trial if there aren't any people getting infected.
By waiting enough time to get data accumulated.
This isn't a mechanistic explanation of how you've arrived at a stronger level of comfort with earlier safety trials, unless your evaluation criteria is literally just that they took longer.
Re: SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein Impairs Endothelial Function via Downregulation of ACE2
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
Indeed. But it's a nontrivial question of numbers. The vaccine has to be orders of magnitude safer than the virus, because (essentially) everyone will get the vaccine, but only some will get the disease. E.g. it might be harmful to vaccinate people in New Zealand and Australia at this point, because for now they cannot get the virus. What these papers (there are 3 independent ones showing very similar results, all co…
Myocarditis is significantly under-diagnosed in young adults, but is believed to be on the order of 10 cases per 100,00 per year in the population.
However, their metric was IIRC "within 3 days of first or second dose"; so 6 days worth of myocarditis compared to your full year number, so a factor of 60 (assuming uniform distribution over the year) to put on same scale.
Re: SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein Impairs Endothelial Function via Downregulation of ACE2
#56If this is a function of the spike protein, doesn't that mean the mRNA vaccines cause this effect as well?
https://twitter.com/manorlaboratory/status/13887170085444198... https://twitter.com/manorlaboratory/status/13887291512893153...
Re: SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein Impairs Endothelial Function via Downregulation of ACE2
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
> New influenza vaccines (using cell lines) were approved after use in 15,000 people The are several important differences: (1) it took 4 years of data, not 6 months of data like Pfizer, (2) using mature, well known technology. Now, let's compare to a flu vaccine approved with an EUA after 6 months, shall we? https://www.bmj.com/content/362/bmj.k3948 https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/07/why-pandemic-flu-sho... (Bo…
You know why we ddin't have any corona virus vaccine before 2020? It's not for lack of trying. They all failed at various stages, all of which were skipped for the SARS-Cov-2 vaccines. You can't run a trial if there aren't any people getting infected. By waiting enough time to get data accumulated. This isn't a mechanistic explanation of how you've arrived at a stronger level of comfort with earlier safety trials, un…
Corona viruses have been with us for a few thousand (millions?) of years. It is estimated 25% or so of colds are caused by corona viruses. And not surprisingly, they can also cause really, really bad outcomes in the sick and elderly -- in fact, there is some speculation that before they became endemic, they were as virulent as sars-cov-2.
And there definitely have been attempts; not as focused, of course, but nevertheless over many years. The most focused attempts were at SARS-Cov-1 and MERS - and both burned out quickly - but also all failed spectacularly at the animal testing stage.
> This isn't a mechanistic explanation of how you've arrived at a stronger level of comfort with earlier safety trials, unless your evaluation criteria is literally just that they took longer.
(a) animal testing (skipped entirely in this case, which would have shown perhaps that targeting the spike protein may be an issue, and
(b) yes, more time. some signals take time to surface - do read the pandermix papers I linked to. Whatever is happening now is just too close for comfort, and I sincerely hope it will end better.
What more can you ask for, when I show you a horrible experiment from 2009, which matches in almost every possible way except we're now using now technology? With articles from science and the BMJ? Is there anything that can satisfy your request for reasonable doubt?
Re: SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein Impairs Endothelial Function via Downregulation of ACE2
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
You know why we ddin't have any corona virus vaccine before 2020? It's not for lack of trying. They all failed at various stages, all of which were skipped for the SARS-Cov-2 vaccines. You can't run a trial if there aren't any people getting infected. By waiting enough time to get data accumulated. This isn't a mechanistic explanation of how you've arrived at a stronger level of comfort with earlier safety trials, un…
> You can't run a trial if there aren't any people getting infected. Corona viruses have been with us for a few thousand (millions?) of years. It is estimated 25% or so of colds are caused by corona viruses. And not surprisingly, they can also cause really, really bad outcomes in the sick and elderly -- in fact, there is some speculation that before they became endemic, they were as virulent as sars-cov-2. And there…
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7449230/
I was just asking to understand your reasoning, I wasn't asking you to convince me it was correct, and I'm not trying to convince you it isn't correct.
Re: SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein Impairs Endothelial Function via Downregulation of ACE2
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
The spike protein from the virus bands to ACE2 receptor, messing them up. The vaccine primes our bodies to attack the spike protein, preventing it from binding to ACE2 and thus preventing it from messing up ACE2 receptors.
But the vaccine causes the body to produce spike protein. The CDC emphasizes the spike protein is harmless, but this new research finds that the spike protein itself can cause damage. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different...
A little bit of spike trains your body to identify it and neutralize it.
A whole lot of spike is toxic to your organs and damages them.
To downregulate ACE2 you need a whole lot of receptor activation and a lot of ligands floating around in your system binding to it to cause that. The dose of spike protein matters.