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Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

theguardian.com

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Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#111
post #71
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you noticed how microwave cooking is not warming up the skin any faster than the insides? The wavelength is selected so that it penetrates and warms water molecules. It would cook your insides according to their water content. Surface of the skin has less water than tissue inside, so you would feel pain beneath the skin.

MythBusters tested that, the outsides (of food) heat up first.

The fact that reverse thermal gradients are often present in microwave thermal processing of materials is quite well known and can be replicated in food in your home microwave, precisely as nabla9 said, regardless of Mythbusters being able to produce a forward thermal gradient.

Microwaves attenuate as they penetrate a resistive or high-permittivity substance, because they deposit some of their energy as they pass through. In the limit of infinite depth, no radiation survives and there is no heating. Given a homogenous substance, the heating is always strongest at the surface, decaying exponentially (to a good approximation) as you go deeper.

However, heating is not the same thing as temperature. The surface of food in your microwave is exposed to room-temperature air and can therefore cool down by conducting its heat to that air. Food just under the surface can conduct its heat to the surface food, while deeper food cannot. It's easy to set up situations where this results in a reverse thermal gradient penetrating some distance into the food, or even all the way to the center. This is one of the most significant advantages of microwave heating in industrial material processing, because there are many cases where the normal thermal gradient produces cracking and microwave-induced reverse thermal gradients do not.

You can set up a forward thermal gradient with microwave heating by some combination of hot air, strong attenuation, short exposure times, shorter wavelengths, and great depth, although unless the air is actually hotter than the highest temperature reached within the food there will always be a reverse thermal gradient present at the surface, since the heat equation always produces a continuous temperature field at t ≠ 0. You may be able to get the reverse thermal gradient to be entirely outside the solid body if you work hard enough, but a much easier way is to only measure the temperature at intervals large enough that the entire reverse thermal gradient is smaller than the first interval. For example, if the thermal maximum is 8 mm under the skin, you could measure the temperature at the surface, 1 cm, 2 cm, 3 cm, 4 cm, and 5 cm.

The attenuation is dependent on the attenuating medium and on wavelength. As explained in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System the ADS uses 95-GHz radio waves with 0.4-mm penetration depth in human flesh, while your microwave oven used 2.4-GHz radio waves with 17-mm penetration depth in human flesh.

nabla9 has been downvoted for politely and straightforwardly, if briefly, explaining these perfectly correct and verifiable facts, facts which are central to the discussion. This makes it clear that the voting public at HN has extremely poor judgment and should not be permitted a vote on comments of decent people.

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll take a shot. If it takes years of exposure, or is delayed, to be effective you want to aim for staffers before they are in key/important positions. Maybe staffers in embassy positions track well into higher, more important jobs?

That would require more foreknowledge about career trajectories than even the US government itself has about its own people.

The stereotype for government officials/workers is they stay in that industry. Sure you can’t target specific roles but you can generally weaken an organization or division through such “gray zone” tactics. Again, just trying to add to the discussion, most likely this is not correct.

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#113
post #89

There's been much skepticism in recent years about whether microwaves were the cause of these officers' conditions. This news confirms that govt agencies are taking the microwave theory seriously as a confirmed explanation for these conditions. It's reasonable to agree with the conclusion at this point.

Its never reasonable to agree with the opaque conclusions of spy agencies in any country, especially when the conclusion points the finger at a hostile pwoer.

There is literally no reason to believe public communications from a spy agency against their enemies (note: that does not mean that they can't be true, it just means that the truth of them is never the reason why the communication is put out).

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#114
post #28

Are microwave attacks something that is proven to exist? Can we replicate the effects on mice from some distance? Given the fact they pass through walls, this kind of bounds the frequency range the attacks could exist in... I would expect to see radio interference on nearby devices, etc (even if operating on a different frequency). I wouldn't be entirely surprised if these could be self-manifesting symptoms from peop…

One of the leaked NSA slides from 2013-2015 included an electromagnetic weapon that was supposedly used to exfiltrate data from air gapped systems by turning humans (or any living thing with high water content) in a given area into WiFi antennas.

If anyone else remembers the slides detailing this device please post the source.

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#115

The US has a long history of abuses and orchestrated false flag attacks on Cuba. See Operation Northwoods [0] and Cubana de Aviación Flight 455 [1]. Somewhat ironically, the US illegally transmits EM radiation to the island in the form of a propaganda-heavy radio station known as Radio Martí. [2] I ask you to please consider these historical events before deciding that Cuba has zapped people’s brains using targeted m…

Besides, 30 years of domestic and foreign intelligence, and they still have no idea who and how does this weird microwave attacks? I'm a bit incredulous.

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#117
post #28

Are microwave attacks something that is proven to exist? Can we replicate the effects on mice from some distance? Given the fact they pass through walls, this kind of bounds the frequency range the attacks could exist in... I would expect to see radio interference on nearby devices, etc (even if operating on a different frequency). I wouldn't be entirely surprised if these could be self-manifesting symptoms from peop…

Not a proof, but several years ago I found this [1] document from a FOIA request on "Bioeffects of Selected Nonlethal Weapon" and I found it interesting enough to save a copy. Specific section is "Incapacitating Effect: Microwave Hearing".

[1] https://legislature.mi.gov/documents/2013-2014/CommitteeDocu...

Edit: ocr-ed version here:

https://www.wired.com/images_blogs/dangerroom/files/Bioeffec...

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you understand the patchwork quilt of Latin American relations, then it is immediately obvious how those other countries are related to Cuba. Imagine discussing Cuban "transgressions" (under the present regime, no less) without considering the Soviet role in the Cuban Missile Crisis, for example.

That’s understandable, but the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991. Why is the US still vehemently opposed to Cuba, or improving its relationship with Cuba? Even North Korea has better standing with the US than Cuba, but it makes little sense.

Because Miami.

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#119
post #63
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which would be very painful when it heats the skin.

Have you noticed how microwave cooking is not warming up the skin any faster than the insides? The wavelength is selected so that it penetrates and warms water molecules. It would cook your insides according to their water content. Surface of the skin has less water than tissue inside, so you would feel pain beneath the skin.

> Have you noticed how microwave cooking is not warming up the skin any faster than the insides?

No. Microwave hot pockets are famous for coming out boiling on the outside, cold on the inside (if you don't let it sit for a couple minutes to equalize).

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#120

The US has a long history of abuses and orchestrated false flag attacks on Cuba. See Operation Northwoods [0] and Cubana de Aviación Flight 455 [1]. Somewhat ironically, the US illegally transmits EM radiation to the island in the form of a propaganda-heavy radio station known as Radio Martí. [2] I ask you to please consider these historical events before deciding that Cuba has zapped people’s brains using targeted m…

You are flooding this post with with multiple threads of innuendo and conspiracy theory - this syndrome is documented in dozens of officials in multiple governments at multiple levels. It has been studied by independent researchers, medical professionals, contractors etc. This has none of the hallmarks of a false flag operation, which in this case would require conspiracy on a massive scale. The US/Canada do not need conspiracy to accomplish any of their strategic goals with respect to Cuba.
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