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Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

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Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#451
post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think misappropriating someone else's work to make a buck is a cultural disaster, but then I work for a living and expect to get paid, so what do I know? Fair Use does exist to provide an avenue for the reuse of the work of others for criticism, parody, and the like., but straight up lifting someone else's work and using it to your own ends, even if noncommercial, is wrong.

Explain why it's wrong when there's no money involved (e.g. fan-fiction and similar works).

Even if there's no money involved that can still damage the market for the work it derives from. It's one thing if the derivative work consists of original characters in the same setting, or existing characters but in a what-if scenario, but as soon as you start trying to write derivative works in the same vein as the original then you're damaging the original author's ability to market his existing work, and to continue that work himself. You are, in a very real sense, taking something that isn't yours.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#452
post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too easy for bad actors to create multiple accounts or game this system. I think this would end up hurting genuine claimants of actual pirated works more that it would help the wrongly accused.

If you're a genuine claimant, you have little to worry about because you don't make false claims.

[deleted]

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#453
post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too easy for bad actors to create multiple accounts or game this system. I think this would end up hurting genuine claimants of actual pirated works more that it would help the wrongly accused.

If you're a genuine claimant, you have little to worry about because you don't make false claims.

That's putting a lot of trust in YouTube that they'll find every claim you make to be valid. Someone could make a dozen accounts with a dozen duplicate/similar versions of your song, you dispute all of them, are found in the right on 9 claims and in the wrong on 3, your account gets 3 wrong accusation strikes and you channel gets banned while the other person then marks one of those knockoffs as the official one.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#454
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no chance for Google to automate away any of this. I'm not quite so pessimistic. There is a chance, machine learning is pretty good these days. But: the chance is pretty low and I assume other priorities are taking up most of their time, and this would be a risky project from a legal point of view.

There is no chance because copyright is not a data problem. It is a provenance problem. Provenance is not a function of data. (Humans can't really solve this problem either.)

> Provenance is not a function of data.

Might not be a function of the data in the video, but they can throw more data from elsewhere at it.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#455
I sometimes wish HN had a way to summon one of the apparently very few sane and effective people at companies like Google, so that they could at least feed stuff like this into the internal task list for future attention.

One can hope it happens, but it would be nice to know, and facts indicate it does not happen enough.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem with that post is that race (black and white people) are unnecessarily brought into it. I'm sure that musicians of all races would want this issue addressed. Making it about race is extremely ridiculous.

Ohhhh ok thank you! The book is from the UK, I'm in Australia, it didn't seem a ridiculous thing to say to either of us. Maybe the problem was...US sensitivities. I, like I believe the KLF also, am white and have dedicated most of my life to the music of "blacks of African descent". The issue is how much more important groove is in black music, and how copyright is in origin a white thing. Changing copyright would no…

Groove is just as important to many non-black people, so saying that only black people would care about this is annoying me. Anyway, I don't have the ability to downvote things, I can only speak for why I didn't like the phrasing.

Small world I guess, I used to be a random nobody, I guess now people have something to recognize me by. I also release music under the name Dream Scatter by the way.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#457
post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's viable, but I welcome any attempts to actually imagine how such regulation might work, what would it consist of.

I definitely don’t have a general case solution. A solution for this case would be something like “a provider of video hosting services is not allowed to take down videos automatically without having a human review each request.”

The law never had that intent though, and getting it into there will most probably be impossible .

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ohhhh ok thank you! The book is from the UK, I'm in Australia, it didn't seem a ridiculous thing to say to either of us. Maybe the problem was...US sensitivities. I, like I believe the KLF also, am white and have dedicated most of my life to the music of "blacks of African descent". The issue is how much more important groove is in black music, and how copyright is in origin a white thing. Changing copyright would no…

Groove is just as important to many non-black people, so saying that only black people would care about this is annoying me. Anyway, I don't have the ability to downvote things, I can only speak for why I didn't like the phrasing. Small world I guess, I used to be a random nobody, I guess now people have something to recognize me by. I also release music under the name Dream Scatter by the way.

> saying that only black people would care about this is annoying me.

..But I think no-one said "only black people would care about this".

Like also I think no-one said "We need black people to change this copyright system" or "this is an issue between black and white people".

I'm not sure the quote is 100% serious, if they really thought things can or will be changed in their suggested way. But if I think about it, which I didn't until people said stuff like "Making it about race is extremely ridiculous."—it just seemed a commendable but unremarkable sentiment, one I never dreamed anyone could have a problem with—suggesting a black lawyer seems apt, for reasons something to do with what could be called self-determination. It would be more awesome and appropriate if black people righted the historic wrong, than if white people did it for them because poor black people can't do it on their own. Etc.

Ok, thanks, I think I learnt something about what your and other peoples' problem was/is, and I hope you learnt something about "my side", where what is extremely ridiculous is someone having problems with the noble desire expressed in that quote. But I guess it's hard here where we don't know each other at all, and don't know about what it seems are the unshared assumptions and beliefs that made my quoting a few lines on fixing copyright from a classic book from the 1980s into something extremely ridiculous and annoying in 2021. ..Ok thanks again.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#459
post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s why we need a regulation change to make it so that you can’t outcompete by being unethical.

I don't think it's viable, but I welcome any attempts to actually imagine how such regulation might work, what would it consist of.

Easy. Put the burden of legal fees and risk of censure on a DMCA mill for false positives. This means if a host takes down content to maintain their safe harbor status, and the person can prove the copyright claim was false or frivolous, you get a cause of action to counter-sue the original claimant. Moonlight Sonata is in the public domain. The teacher's performance != anyone elses. Therefore, false, therefore it should have reprecussions for the signing attorney. If it was pre-emptive by Google without a DMCA request from an external entity, that's a different issue.

People don't get it. Perjury actually means something. When you have the blade of perjury over head, it is absolutely the case that as a human being, if you have doubt, you should be saying it, or you're misrepresenting the truth of the matter.

The level of perjury inherent to generating these claims via automated process is absurd. It is absolutely reasonable that when you have a group going around and using the legal system as a cudgel, the proper response is to return the favor.

This process should not scale at all if people would punch back. Perjury should be trivial to prove when no one even looked at the content in qustion aside from an analysis suite.

Regardless; there is always the self-hosted option.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> from PeerTube themselves on the PeerTube.com PeerTube.com is not "PeerTube themselves". This is one of the servers, not the best one. This is the official PeerTube website: https://joinpeertube.org . It will show search results on many servers. > The moment the service asks me to think about what server is hosting it is the moment I don't care enough to jump through those hoops. You only choose your server once, li…

I corrected the URL in my post. I was on JoinPeertube.org and watched the, "What is PeerTube?" video that is embedded in that page. If I watched it again, it might not buffer at all. Maybe it was a bad moment. But I consume a lot of content on YouTube and I can't remember the last time a video buffered a single time--let alone several times in the first 30 seconds. I'm honestly done with this ridiculous strawman abou…

The beautiful thing about technology is that anyone can do it. You feel like people are implying you're too stupid to do it, which no one will ever (or should ever) say since part of everyone's coming to terms with tech is screwing up in all the myriad ways required until you get it right.

Before YouTube, people self-hosted. That is still an option. You can drop your work product on a server, configure it to only accept requests from servers or locations you control, then link in your content til the cows come home. You may need a cache to handle higher traffic loads, but once you find a setup that works for you, you're golden.

Use Youtube for discovery all you want, but understand that someone else's computer will never be as immune to external sources of disruption and malicious bureaucracy as something you own and independently operate.

If it's important enough to become a revenue stream, it's important enough to accomodate some cap and op-ex to ensuring you have a fallback option for. The rest of the world can be relied upon, however, to want to get their licks in whenever somebody has nice things. Plan accordingly.

This is why we all can't get along and just have nice things.

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