Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

youtube.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

371–380 of 503 posts

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#371

Post by TeeMassive »

lovelyviking wrote: post #138

Actually I doubt that you can avoid abusing current copyright laws. Also because there is no such "right" in nature. If you wish monopoly call it for what it is and have laws in accordance. Such "right" shouldn't exist in the first place or at least in the current form. Copy process is the way people learn and progress. Copy process is essential for spreading knowledge and development. When you learn you copy. When y…

Copyright is a way to encourage the production of new culture. Even if it is abused it doesn't remove all of its merits. Countries with weak copyright laws do produce or export content and are barely heard of and the reason why is not hard to deduce: all their top talents can't live out of what they produce and therefore go elsewhere.

If you really want to go the deconstruction route, laws are unnatural but murder and assault are found in nature everywhere and therefore we're all doing it wrong. Now if you excuse me I have to take care of my collection of scalps /s.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#372

Post by rfrey »

bskap wrote: post #342
Swenrekcah wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like some have suggested, the automated system should only be an input for a team of humans to then review and consider. They should then contact the potentially breaching party and get some feedback as well as doing some due diligence to check if the complaint came from a proper right holder. Yes this costs money but it is the only way to do the job without being a scumbag and a general burden on the world. Furtherm…

That's all great in theory, but current US copyright law isn't really in favor of implementing any of that. If Google tried to do it, they'd likely get flooded with massive lawsuits from the media conglomerates because they'd lose the DMCA safe harbor.

Why would they lose the DMCA safe harbor? We're talking about YouTube's own scanner here, not DMCA takedowns. There's no requirement in the DMCA to implement an internal scanner that has many false positives, and not investigate the scanner's output.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#373

Post by zentiggr »

adrr wrote: post #258
GordonS wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO the biggest issue with all this is the lack of a suitable appeals process, handled by humans. Would such a process be expensive? Yes, but you can't have it both ways, enabling copyright holders to lodge spurious claims at will, and not allow content creators - who the entire platform is built on! - to disclaim them. Would such a process be expensive? Yes, of course - but YouTube can very well afford it.

Copyright enforcement should be on the copyright holders. YouTube shouldn’t have to build AI to scan for copyrighted material. Copyright holders need to a person verify all copyright claims and be liable for the opposite exact same amount of damages that would be rewarded for legitimate copyright claim.

Talk to the RIAA etc.

They seem to believe that only their own sanctioned releases should be allowed, and that they should all be paywalled so that every view is paid for.

Or we could fight the whole damn robber baron system and return to something resembling common sense.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#374

Post by EarlKing »

visarga wrote: post #307
RogerL wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not allowed to create derivative works from another person's creation, regardless of whether you are making money from it. You can't go and make a Shrek III flick, for example, or write a book set in the Harry Potter universe. Likewise, you can't adapt music from a film (IANAL, there are things like fair use, but in general this holds). https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ14.pdf

> You are not allowed to create (free) derivative works I think putting such constraints on creative work is a cultural disaster.

I think misappropriating someone else's work to make a buck is a cultural disaster, but then I work for a living and expect to get paid, so what do I know? Fair Use does exist to provide an avenue for the reuse of the work of others for criticism, parody, and the like., but straight up lifting someone else's work and using it to your own ends, even if noncommercial, is wrong.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#375

Post by BlueTemplar »

lovelyviking wrote: post #112
gekkonier wrote: post #8

It's google. I can live without it. Do you?

What about copyright it self? If they have manage to abuse it even with google what are chances that they would not find a way to abuse it on smaller platforms?

They would. That's why you should avoid platforms, they go against the principles of the decentralized World Wide Web.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#376

Post by BlueTemplar »

bertil wrote: post #53
paulmd wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're fundamentally misunderstanding the purpose of the copyright claim system: it doesn't exist to determine the legitimate owner of a work, it exists to keep youtube from being sued . Since there is no legal penalty for a "false positive", even if the creator can prove that it's a false positive, while there is a penalty for a false negative, the system will always lean to aggressive removal and demonetization, be…

> Since there is no legal penalty for a "false positive", I’m really confused by that part: YouTube lawyers must know that there’s a significant risk they’ll piss of a someone like a law professor and that they’ll use all their faculty to go after what is essentially fraud: there are provisions in the CDMA precisely for that, and the platform is liable for indulging those in systematic cases. Even if it’s not, they a…

Well they already managed to piss off the EU, but after intense lobbying by Google, it looks like that the resulting law hinders more YouTube's competitors?

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#377

Post by EarlKing »

zentiggr wrote: post #373
adrr wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copyright enforcement should be on the copyright holders. YouTube shouldn’t have to build AI to scan for copyrighted material. Copyright holders need to a person verify all copyright claims and be liable for the opposite exact same amount of damages that would be rewarded for legitimate copyright claim.

Talk to the RIAA etc. They seem to believe that only their own sanctioned releases should be allowed, and that they should all be paywalled so that every view is paid for. Or we could fight the whole damn robber baron system and return to something resembling common sense.

Actually, I have a better solution...

Disallow the uploading of all content held by RIAA/MPAA-affiliated companies from the likes of YouTube, even if the owners thereof wish it to be there. Fuck them. Let them go build their own platform if they think their work is so god damn awesome. Save YouTube/et al. for works created by, well... You.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#378

Post by bcrescimanno »

fsflover wrote: post #322
bcrescimanno wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your assessment of Google; however, what is a reasonable alternative for a content creator who wants to publish their videos and be able to build an audience? You kinda have to go where the audience will be if you don't already have one and I'm not aware of any video discovery platforms with anywhere near the reach of YouTube. I've managed to get out of Google products almost entirely--YouTube remains th…

> however, what is a reasonable alternative for a content creator who wants to publish their videos and be able to build an audience? Put your videos on Youtube and PeerTube.

I'd honestly never heard of PeerTube so I searched it. Ah, they have a "about peertube" video! Should be great! In the first 30 seconds of the video, there were 1-3s long hiccups 4 times. Not exactly a confidence-inspiring start. After figuring out how to find more videos, I tried to play some--but, experienced more hiccups or load times from 20s to a full minute--and some just flat out didn't play at all.

I'm not saying PeerTube doesn't look like interesting tech; but this is clearly aimed at a far more tech-savvy crowd and to put it out there in response to asking for a, "reasonable alternative for a content creator who wants to publish their videos and be able to build an audience" is just totally missing the mark of what makes YouTube successful for creators and viewers alike.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#379

Post by gwd »

robflynn wrote: post #313
gwd wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what should happen is this: Step 1: Someone files a copyright claim (or perhaps this is done automatically). This is free. Step 2: Someone disputes the claim. This is also free, and automatically restores the video. Step 3: The filer can re-submit the claim but they have to post a bond for the price of a professional manual review by a trained copyright lawyer; maybe $1000. Step 4: If the video owner can re-d…

Would this not allow companies with deep pockets to continue to abuse the smaller channels who might not have $1000 lying around to put in escrow on the off chance of losing the $1000 just because some lawyer somewhere made a bad decision? Or they just get their video removed because they dont have $1000 to begin with.

Let's not let the best be the enemy of the good. Right now 1) companies with deep pockets can easily false claims with very little consequences 2) small channels basically have no recourse.

Obviously the whole system is predicated on the lawyers being fair: but assuming the lawyers usually DTRT, then 1) there will be consequences for false claims, resulting in far fewer of them and 2) small channels can get a real human to look at their claims.

No situation is perfect, but I'm pretty sure it would be better.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#380

Post by bcrescimanno »

feudalism wrote: post #370
bcrescimanno wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your assessment of Google; however, what is a reasonable alternative for a content creator who wants to publish their videos and be able to build an audience? You kinda have to go where the audience will be if you don't already have one and I'm not aware of any video discovery platforms with anywhere near the reach of YouTube. I've managed to get out of Google products almost entirely--YouTube remains th…

> what is a reasonable alternative for a content creator who wants to publish their videos and be able to build an audience? I've noticed several tech-related content producers copying their videos over to LBRY/Odysee as a backup in case the YT algorithm decides to cancel them.

These are great solutions to keep your content if Google decides to lock you out or destroy your content; but, they aren't platforms on which you can build a content creation side of a business.
Post reply on HN