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Will Linux phones stay around this time?

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Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#221

Post by sto_hristo »

matkoniecz wrote: post #121
sto_hristo wrote: post #107

Linux desktop is nowhere due to the thousands of distributions and disparity in development effort. A linux phone is simply unthinkable. Biggest strength in android/ios is the centralized leadership and vision. This enables consumers to make an easy choice, which attracts developers, who all seek predictability and maximum exposure. But even if the linux community centralizes around a singularity, it will still be no…

> Linux desktop is nowhere this is as untrue as "Year $YEAR will be year of Linux on desktop" was so far (posting from laptop running Linux) > A linux phone is simply unthinkable Linux phones exist already > You can't race It is not always necessary to win completely and crush competition to reach goal

Well i'm also posting from a PC running linux desktop. But i can deal with it. The vast majority of consumers can't and will not. Also, if i had to create a desktop application, i'd target windows/macos primarily, as most other developers do.

And even though those pure linux phones exist, they're hardly usable. Sure, it's just the beginning, given time it will evolve. But the problem of effort disparity will inevitably manifest itself again, and you'll get 1000s of distros to choose from and none will stand up to to that single android device.

> It is not always necessary to win completely and crush competition to reach goal

I agree. I like to run for the fun of it and don't care for racing. But if you're going to compete directly against android phone or a windows desktop, you have to play to win.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#222

Post by [deleted] »

strzibny wrote: post #193
AussieWog93 wrote: post #139

I'd be shocked if it took off. The FOSS development paradigm seems to be allergic to good UI design, and this is far more important for people on mobile than desktop.

We have GNOME 40 now which is beautiful. I can imagine it would be beautiful on mobile pretty soon as well.

[deleted]

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#223

Post by ekianjo »

codeflo wrote: post #189
1_player wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure about that, I just think that "design" has a lower barrier to entry. A pure designer cannot one day find themselves writing code for a major piece of opensource software. A pure programmer can find themselves arranging some UI and designing a logo on Inkscape, that won't look and feel great. Put the two together and something magical can happen, though not always, as design is so easy the programmer can be o…

It’s even worse, I think. Good UX design looks deceptively easy, but is actually incredibly hard. So hard that a lot of programmers don’t even recognize how terrible they are at it, or how high the skill ceiling actually is. They think UI design is pretty colors and rounded buttons. In a functioning software company, the managers recognize this skill difference and simply order the developers to implement what the de…

> I don’t see a solution to this.

User testing. Making user feedback the key driver of UI related decisions.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#225

Post by ekianjo »

j-james wrote: post #114

I don't understand the desire for a Linux phone as so described in the article as a daily driver. The Android platform represents an enormous amount of work that encompasses a more secure base kernel, an unparalleled selection of applications designed for mobile usage and written in a memory-safe language, fantastic sandboxing and user privacy features leagues ahead of any desktop operating system, and great diversit…

> I don't understand the desire for a Linux phone as so described in the article as a daily driver.

So you are fine throwing your phone every 2 years or so once the manufacturer stops releasing updates?

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#226

Post by iudqnolq »

rubatuga wrote: post #33
snazz wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having each app run in the background and manage its own notifications can work, but also causes battery life issues with more apps.

I mean, if you just have a select() command blocking, I don't see why having a 100 sockets open would be any different than 1 socket.

The radio is a massive battery draw, so you want it to be off as much as possible. The built-in push notification service will batch low priority packets and send them all alongside the next high priority one it receives.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#227

Post by sto_hristo »

seba_dos1 wrote: post #148
sto_hristo wrote: post #107

Linux desktop is nowhere due to the thousands of distributions and disparity in development effort. A linux phone is simply unthinkable. Biggest strength in android/ios is the centralized leadership and vision. This enables consumers to make an easy choice, which attracts developers, who all seek predictability and maximum exposure. But even if the linux community centralizes around a singularity, it will still be no…

> hook an usbc cable to a random monitor, presto - desktop computer in your pocket you can do work on. That's exactly what "Linux phones" already do pretty well. Just take a look at this demo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qB_5g2ZJYk ;)

While i haven't seen this particular demo, i've seen others. It is indeed awesome and the way to go.

I just hope effort this time around centralizes around a single os (distro), otherwise the linux desktop situation is going to repeat itself.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#228

Post by Beldin »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #182
matkoniecz wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that the root cause is that OSS is often developed by people already using it. They are used to weird interface and not benefiting from it being usable by newbies. So there is much smaller motivation to improve it. And even if someone new joins project they will be often also used to weird interface once they contribute.

I think it's simpler than that. Unpaid developers overwhelmingly prefer to work on the intellectually "sexy" problems such as encryption or compilers, to the detriment of the boring-yet-important stuff like UI improvements and hardware compatibility (let alone proper QA).

It's even simpler than that. Who wants to work on changing a UI that they themselves are comfortable with? It's work with - best case - no benefit in the eyes of the developer. Worse, you likely will break workflows - including your own. Sexyness doesn't need to factor in at all.

And do note the nice uncanny valley of no change: in order to improve the UI, you need to understand the program well. In order for that to happen, you need to be proficient with it. In which case, you know how to use the UI and are more likely blind to its downsides.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#229

Post by swiley »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #139

I'd be shocked if it took off. The FOSS development paradigm seems to be allergic to good UI design, and this is far more important for people on mobile than desktop.

Two things:

1) The GNU utilities have pretty good CLI UI design and there are plenty of us who are perfectly happy with just that and a decent WM like FVWM even on a phone

2) It's not like closed mobile stuff has a great UI either. My favorite example is Apple's camera app. Did you know you can do manual focus with it? It's absolutely impossible to discover but I think it involves a "reverse three finger pinch." I've even had it explained twice to me (and used it) and forgotten how to do it after. I can never remember how when I need it. This garbage makes the TAR UI look like it was designed by an artist.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#230

Post by dagw »

squarefoot wrote: post #213
dagw wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it wasn't for Microsoft, Linux on Nokia phones would have succeeded. That seems wildly optimistic. I owned an N900 and used an N9 for a while, and while I loved them for all their nerdy glory, they where not ready for prime time. Why do you think Nokia would have done better with Meego than they did with WP?

I can't be 100% sure, of course, however both Purism and Pine64 phones are slowly but steadily getting better every month. I can only imagine that Nokia could have allocated a lot more resources on making their Linux phone.

Nokia + Microsoft poured more resources into Windows Phone than Nokia would ever have poured into Meego. And they failed, despite both WP 8 and 10 both offering a really great mobile OS experience.
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