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Will Linux phones stay around this time?

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Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#141

Post by pjmlp »

techrat wrote: post #119
akiselev wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The core parts of Android that make it usable on mobile devices like power management and scheduling [1] aren't in the mainline Linux kernel last I checked. This is about getting Linux to the point where you can choose between an Arch, Ubuntu, debian, etc. distro for your phone. [1] https://lwn.net/Articles/706374/

> This is about getting Linux to the point where you can choose between an Arch, Ubuntu, debian, etc. distro for your phone. Does Termux count? It may be containered within an application package, but it's running off the host kernel and it uses the debian package manager. https://i.imgur.com/WIT2VjW.png I find that, when it comes to Android, people try really hard to make exceptions for what qualifies as "Linux" tha…

Termux is on the death bed, because they refuse to ackowledge Android isn't Linux and make use of Java APIs for their purposes.

So given that from Google's point of view POSIX and Linux syscalls aren't public APIs on Android, termux no longer works on latest Android versions and it will get worse, as NDK APIs keep being locked down as sandbox improvements.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#142

Post by [deleted] »

sto_hristo wrote: post #107

Linux desktop is nowhere due to the thousands of distributions and disparity in development effort. A linux phone is simply unthinkable. Biggest strength in android/ios is the centralized leadership and vision. This enables consumers to make an easy choice, which attracts developers, who all seek predictability and maximum exposure. But even if the linux community centralizes around a singularity, it will still be no…

[deleted]

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#143

Post by pjmlp »

kjeetgill wrote: post #66
danielheath wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahh, I missed one or two substitutions. Fixed now.

In that vein, should Google replace POSIX here? And maybe that cuts to the heart of the matter more then you meant to, haha.

They already replaced it with Java APIs, POSIX isn't a public API on Android.

https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/stable_apis

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#144

Post by EvilEy3 »

mattl wrote: post #13

Of course not. Nobody wants to run that on their phone except a tiny few. Android isn’t the same, but even then nobody knowingly wants to run Android.

> Android isn’t the same, but even then nobody knowingly wants to run Android.

What are you smoking? Android is the most popular OS in the world. It has millions of applications in PlayStore and outside of it. It has millions of developers creating software for it, huge companies contributing to it and best in the class development tools.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#145

Post by colordrops »

j-james wrote: post #114

I don't understand the desire for a Linux phone as so described in the article as a daily driver. The Android platform represents an enormous amount of work that encompasses a more secure base kernel, an unparalleled selection of applications designed for mobile usage and written in a memory-safe language, fantastic sandboxing and user privacy features leagues ahead of any desktop operating system, and great diversit…

Yes, Android is mature and secure, but it's not private. No one seems to talk about this much, but there are a few Android "features" that had to be designed by sociopaths.

The main one for me is the complete lack of control of network traffic. Other than a VPN loopback app, which is pretty janky, there is no way to disable network traffic per app. Even with a VPN loopback, there is no way to only allow network traffic when then app is in the foreground. There is no way to set network traffic to block by default and ask the user for permission when network access is needed. These restrictions are ABSOLUTELY DEADLY for user privacy and I don't understand why everyone isn't screaming at the top of their lungs from rooftops about these problems.

It's quite obvious with a 2 seconds of thought that these deficiencies were intentional to maintain Google's advertising monopoly, but I don't want a crippled OS to support Google's abhorrent business model.

It's absolutely mind boggling. It almost makes me want to join the LineageOS project to close these loopholes.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#146

Post by EvilEy3 »

sliken wrote: post #129
lostmsu wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you like for Email on your phone from the Linux world? A web browser? Contacts app? These are essentials for the phone. What about an RSS client?

I greatly prefer firefox to chrome on android. Especially reader mode.

If only there was a Firefox for Android.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#147

Post by seba_dos1 »

jchw wrote: post #47
m463 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a librem 5 and it seems quite a bit smoother than the pine videos I've seen. In some pine videos I've seen people swiping multiple times before the touch is detected or an action is taken. I don't know if purism has tighter driver integration, or if the hardware is just faster. I haven't figured out how to get good apps though. I found this ubuntu touch video on another type of phone (?) and it looks like stuf…

Someone at Purism once said the issue was related to memory IIRC. So it’s possible that is a piece of the puzzle.

RAM is almost 3 times faster indeed, but it's not the only thing that matters (CPU clock and double the L2 cache, much more powerful GPU, faster eMMC, better thermals). That's not "tighter integration", that hardware is simply more powerful.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#148

Post by seba_dos1 »

sto_hristo wrote: post #107

Linux desktop is nowhere due to the thousands of distributions and disparity in development effort. A linux phone is simply unthinkable. Biggest strength in android/ios is the centralized leadership and vision. This enables consumers to make an easy choice, which attracts developers, who all seek predictability and maximum exposure. But even if the linux community centralizes around a singularity, it will still be no…

> hook an usbc cable to a random monitor, presto - desktop computer in your pocket you can do work on.

That's exactly what "Linux phones" already do pretty well.

Just take a look at this demo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qB_5g2ZJYk ;)

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#149

Post by rhn_mk1 »

Const-me wrote: post #140
sto_hristo wrote: post #107

Linux desktop is nowhere due to the thousands of distributions and disparity in development effort. A linux phone is simply unthinkable. Biggest strength in android/ios is the centralized leadership and vision. This enables consumers to make an easy choice, which attracts developers, who all seek predictability and maximum exposure. But even if the linux community centralizes around a singularity, it will still be no…

> Just take a look at this demo Consumers didn't care about that. Windows had it in 2015: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyVHCFsiq8c

Windows' failure means that consumers don't care about running a desktop without all the software that they have.

Windows software doesn't typically provide desktop builds on ARM, whereas on Linux, there's very little software that you can't take from AMD64 to ARM, especially if all you need is in the distribution's repository.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#150

Post by shmerl »

j-james wrote: post #114

I don't understand the desire for a Linux phone as so described in the article as a daily driver. The Android platform represents an enormous amount of work that encompasses a more secure base kernel, an unparalleled selection of applications designed for mobile usage and written in a memory-safe language, fantastic sandboxing and user privacy features leagues ahead of any desktop operating system, and great diversit…

Android deviated from the rest of the Linux ecosystem for reasons that are irrelevant today and never tried to close the rift when it could. So no, I'm not thrilled about Android. Give me a system that uses Wayland, not SurfaceFlinger.
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