Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Will Linux phones stay around this time?

linmob.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 491 posts

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#41

Post by ryukafalz »

rubatuga wrote: post #33
snazz wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having each app run in the background and manage its own notifications can work, but also causes battery life issues with more apps.

I mean, if you just have a select() command blocking, I don't see why having a 100 sockets open would be any different than 1 socket.

Part of the problem is that Linux desktop apps typically aren't designed to conserve on network usage and/or don't have mechanisms to do so without a push server.

For example, Matrix clients on Android/iOS will stay suspended entirely, then will wake up when you receive a push notification. Desktop clients, on the other hand, will stay running and receive every message, even if they're not messages that you necessarily care about/that would notify.

The protocol could in theory have an in-band way to tell the server "hey, I really only care about notifications now, could you only send me those?" but currently it doesn't. By contrast, most Android/iOS apps can rely on push notifications and suspend completely when they're not in the foreground - meaning they're not receiving anything but what's important enough to notify about.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#42

Post by rubatuga »

detaro wrote: post #39
rubatuga wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, if you just have a select() command blocking, I don't see why having a 100 sockets open would be any different than 1 socket.

You need to keep the connection alive, which means regular traffic, which means regularly sending data, which needs energy. More connections mean a) more traffic and b) unless you add some coordination mechanism, waking up the modem more often at random times, which is energy-intensive in itself.

I see, we need some coordination mechanism, and at that point, why not just use a central server to manage notifications :)

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#43

Post by 3np »

wjertyj wrote: post #27
jchw wrote: post #6

I enjoy the Pinephone, but it certainly has its issues. I’d kill for better performance; it’s very close to usability. I also have some issues with the hardware (it seems my battery has stopped working entirely, recently.) On the other hand, there is one confounding software issue that I think makes it the hardest as a full replacement for a modern smartphone: push notifications. An equivalent for APNS or FCM that al…

The lack of a self-hosted push notification system is a massive hole in the user privacy story for users of all phones. I dream of being able to configure my phone (be it android, linux, or ios) to proxy all communication with push services through a host I control. At the nitty-gritty implementation level, I kind of hope the LinuxPhone world adopts Matrix as a standardish notification transport.

MQTT seems way more suitable for push. Maybe some system/os level integration needed to make it efficient?

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#44

Post by rbanffy »

dspillett wrote: post #10
rbanffy wrote: post #2

Am I missing something? Every Android phone is running Linux.

Depends what is being meant by Linux. Yes they run a variant of the Linux kernel, and there is some commonality in parts of the common libraries, but there are significant differences atop that which makes it quite different to your average desktop Linux. The overall Android environment isn't Debian, Ubuntu, RedHat, ..., or other GNU/Linux environment. (the downvotes you currently have there given the graying text ar…

Android is running Linux as much as my router is. Or my TV. Or all those docker containers with a thin image and a Go application.

It’s not a desktop Linux OS, of course. But it’s still Linux.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#45

Post by ryukafalz »

lostmsu wrote: post #38
kgwxd wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't think of an Android app I'd prefer over a Linux alternative. Edit: Maybe Google Maps, but that's it.

What would you like for Email on your phone from the Linux world? A web browser? Contacts app? These are essentials for the phone. What about an RSS client?

> What would you like for Email on your phone from the Linux world?

There seems to be an adaptive version of Geary now, which looks nice though I haven't used it yet.

> A web browser?

GNOME Web works pretty well in my experience, though it could be faster and it's still missing WebRTC support.

> Contacts app?

GNOME Contacts seems to work well enough on my Librem 5 - synced straight away with my Nextcloud instance, vs. on Android where I had to find a third-party app to do that.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#46

Post by m463 »

jchw wrote: post #6

I enjoy the Pinephone, but it certainly has its issues. I’d kill for better performance; it’s very close to usability. I also have some issues with the hardware (it seems my battery has stopped working entirely, recently.) On the other hand, there is one confounding software issue that I think makes it the hardest as a full replacement for a modern smartphone: push notifications. An equivalent for APNS or FCM that al…

I have a librem 5 and it seems quite a bit smoother than the pine videos I've seen.

In some pine videos I've seen people swiping multiple times before the touch is detected or an action is taken.

I don't know if purism has tighter driver integration, or if the hardware is just faster.

I haven't figured out how to get good apps though.

I found this ubuntu touch video on another type of phone (?) and it looks like stuff is out there:

https://youtu.be/Nf_DnsZHwdE

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#47

Post by jchw »

m463 wrote: post #46
jchw wrote: post #6

I enjoy the Pinephone, but it certainly has its issues. I’d kill for better performance; it’s very close to usability. I also have some issues with the hardware (it seems my battery has stopped working entirely, recently.) On the other hand, there is one confounding software issue that I think makes it the hardest as a full replacement for a modern smartphone: push notifications. An equivalent for APNS or FCM that al…

I have a librem 5 and it seems quite a bit smoother than the pine videos I've seen. In some pine videos I've seen people swiping multiple times before the touch is detected or an action is taken. I don't know if purism has tighter driver integration, or if the hardware is just faster. I haven't figured out how to get good apps though. I found this ubuntu touch video on another type of phone (?) and it looks like stuf…

Someone at Purism once said the issue was related to memory IIRC. So it’s possible that is a piece of the puzzle.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#48

Post by zozbot234 »

detaro wrote: post #39
rubatuga wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, if you just have a select() command blocking, I don't see why having a 100 sockets open would be any different than 1 socket.

You need to keep the connection alive, which means regular traffic, which means regularly sending data, which needs energy. More connections mean a) more traffic and b) unless you add some coordination mechanism, waking up the modem more often at random times, which is energy-intensive in itself.

> unless you add some coordination mechanism, waking up the modem more often at random times, which is energy-intensive in itself.

You just need to coalesce timer wakeups, which Linux supports already at the kernel level AFAICT.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#49

Post by rbanffy »

danielheath wrote: post #16
InvertedRhodium wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android is not Linux any more than Chrome or Firefox is Linux just because it runs on top of it.

I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're refering to as Linux, is in fact, Android/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, Android plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning Android system made useful by the Android corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

Android runs Linux. Android is not GNU/Linux.

Re: Will Linux phones stay around this time?

#50

Post by serf »

robolange wrote: post #19

Openmoko failed for so much more than financial reasons. It's been a while since I've thought of that fiasco, but my memories: * The leadership was terrible. They had no clue what it took to make a mass market product. They just assumed that they would sell hardware and a community would provide a working operating system and apps magically. * The hardware was buggy. There was one issue that if you let the battery dr…

>I was so done with it that I just dropped it in the trash (after wiping it, of course).

next time you have an urge to throw a battery-equipped device into the trash(!?), consider donation.

you may not like the device but someone out there may be thrilled at the chance to de-solder some useful components.

Post reply on HN