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Thoughts on a “HDD shortage” from an industry insider

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Re: Thoughts on a “HDD shortage” from an industry insider

#41

Post by oceanplexian »

smolder wrote: post #30
Ericson2314 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shortages are good. It's the perfect time to set up manufacturing capability, so nationalists can be happy. It's a good time to push for hire wages, workers should do it. If there is some alternative industrial process, now's the time to try it. This is no 70s oil moment, because there's no indication fewer widgets are being produced than prepandemic.

This doesn't change that the shortages are caused by processes with infinite appetites. The demand grows with the supply, for hardware used by cryptocurrencies. To me it looks like the polar opposite of sustainability, which is distressing.

I just don’t get the sustainability argument..

Who decided that all computing must be for a sustainable or meaningful purpose? Cryptocurrency, as wasteful as it might appear, is like a drop in the ocean compared to the data centers of Google, Facebook, Microsoft, etc. Likes on Facebook provide much less value to society than a distributed currency that circumvents central control over the financial system.

Second, Crypto doesn’t exist in a vacuum. How much “energy” does it take to disassemble a mountain and suck out precious metals or diamonds? How much energy does it take to manufacture all the coins and paper money the world over? And how many innocent people have been gunned down for the petrodollar or some other dispute over fiat currency?

Re: Thoughts on a “HDD shortage” from an industry insider

#42

Post by AlexandrB »

nullc wrote: post #32

It's really important that manufacturers start responding to cryptocurrency induced shortages with auctions. The demand from the cryptocurrency users will be extremely high until they've spent a particular amount in total. They can do that with 1000 units, or with 5000 units. Obviously auctioning off units would be bad for having predictable prices for retail customers but that is irrelevant if aggressive miner buyin…

This sounds great. Hard drive prices will start increasing until building a computer is prohibitively expensive unless you're a large scale OEM that can make bulk contracts. Another example of cryptocurrency empowering individuals.

Re: Thoughts on a “HDD shortage” from an industry insider

#43

Post by graeme »

Havoc wrote: post #37
99_00 wrote: post #34

I've never built a PC. I expect the crytpocurency bubble to collapse because my tech ignorant accountant friend asked what I know about building a crypto mining rig. What should I read to prepare myself to take advantage of the cheap used high end hardware that will hit the market do build a Windows or Linux system for my own pleasure.

I wouldn't count on it collapsing any time soon. Not with everyone from Visa to Time magazine jumping on the bandwagon >I've never built a PC. Definitely worthwhile. Basically lego for adults. Tons of good info here https://old.reddit.com/r/buildapc/

There is a well known curse to Time/Newsweek/Businessweek covers. Things that make the front page there tend to do worse.

No guarantee, but it’s more of an anti signal.

Re: Thoughts on a “HDD shortage” from an industry insider

#44

Post by ancientworldnow »

jl6 wrote: post #38

Bitcoin ate all the GPUs and I said nothing because I was not a gamer. Now Chia wants to eat all the hard disks, and I am pissed . I declare war on hegemonizing proof-of-waste swarms. Burn the coins. I want that disk space back.

Ethereum are the GPU's. Bitcoin utilizes ASIC's designed only for Bitcoin. This is an eventual e-waste issue, but not a GPU supply issue.

Re: Thoughts on a “HDD shortage” from an industry insider

#45

Post by jfim »

ancientworldnow wrote: post #44
jl6 wrote: post #38

Bitcoin ate all the GPUs and I said nothing because I was not a gamer. Now Chia wants to eat all the hard disks, and I am pissed . I declare war on hegemonizing proof-of-waste swarms. Burn the coins. I want that disk space back.

Ethereum are the GPU's. Bitcoin utilizes ASIC's designed only for Bitcoin. This is an eventual e-waste issue, but not a GPU supply issue.

Do bitcoin ASICs compete for the same limited IC foundry space?

Re: Thoughts on a “HDD shortage” from an industry insider

#47

Post by mytherin »

oceanplexian wrote: post #41
smolder wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't change that the shortages are caused by processes with infinite appetites. The demand grows with the supply, for hardware used by cryptocurrencies. To me it looks like the polar opposite of sustainability, which is distressing.

I just don’t get the sustainability argument.. Who decided that all computing must be for a sustainable or meaningful purpose? Cryptocurrency, as wasteful as it might appear, is like a drop in the ocean compared to the data centers of Google, Facebook, Microsoft, etc. Likes on Facebook provide much less value to society than a distributed currency that circumvents central control over the financial system. Second, Cr…

Bitcoin alone is estimated to use around 129 TWh of electricity [1], compared to 12 TWh for Google or 200 TWh for literally all other data centers [2]. Hardly a drop in the bucket, unless that drop is the size of 10 buckets. Surely not even the most hardcore cryptocurrency enthusiast would argue that crypto provides anywhere near the utility of the rest of the entire internet.

[1] https://www.visualcapitalist.com/visualizing-the-power-consu...

[2] https://www.deccanherald.com/business/why-bitcoin-uses-10-ti...

Re: Thoughts on a “HDD shortage” from an industry insider

#48

Post by fmajid »

jl6 wrote: post #38

Bitcoin ate all the GPUs and I said nothing because I was not a gamer. Now Chia wants to eat all the hard disks, and I am pissed . I declare war on hegemonizing proof-of-waste swarms. Burn the coins. I want that disk space back.

“Chia” means “shat” in French.

Re: Thoughts on a “HDD shortage” from an industry insider

#49

Post by EMM_386 »

jl6 wrote: post #38

Bitcoin ate all the GPUs and I said nothing because I was not a gamer. Now Chia wants to eat all the hard disks, and I am pissed . I declare war on hegemonizing proof-of-waste swarms. Burn the coins. I want that disk space back.

In that thread, they do the math on Chia's current effect, and it is tiny.

Not to say it won't grow to become a problem but even at 1EB of storage, it's not a problem:

> Data center storage growth is round 2-2.5 EB/day. The 1.4 EB used by Chia so far is less than one day's data center growth.

I'm not defending yet another wasteful use of cryptocurrency ... first it was the GPUs now its the SSDs.

Re: Thoughts on a “HDD shortage” from an industry insider

#50

Post by seanalexander »

EMM_386 wrote: post #49
jl6 wrote: post #38

Bitcoin ate all the GPUs and I said nothing because I was not a gamer. Now Chia wants to eat all the hard disks, and I am pissed . I declare war on hegemonizing proof-of-waste swarms. Burn the coins. I want that disk space back.

In that thread, they do the math on Chia's current effect, and it is tiny. Not to say it won't grow to become a problem but even at 1EB of storage, it's not a problem: > Data center storage growth is round 2-2.5 EB/day. The 1.4 EB used by Chia so far is less than one day's data center growth. I'm not defending yet another wasteful use of cryptocurrency ... first it was the GPUs now its the SSDs.

Until we live in some horrid future where computers no longer have storage and we all use the cloud, consumers need to buy HDDs too. Not just data centers. This is a retail-level issue, not a data center growth issue. It's the same as how GPUs aren't on shelves because people use them to mine -- ASICs are better but the ASIC game is hard for retail "miners" to get into.
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