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Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

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Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#261

Post by cronix »

bluesign wrote: post #5

This is fraud. They claim they have right to something they don't, when you dispute, YouTube just directing them the dispute and they reject. As you don't want to risk 3 strike, you agree to share revenue. Basically Youtube doing nothing.

> Basically Youtube doing nothing.

Actually, they're hurting an independent content creator over something she has every right to do using works in the public domain. Youtube is doing that, not the fraudster making the false claim. They have no power other than what Youtube gives them, and Youtube gives them 100% of the power.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#262

Post by blacklight »

I've already stated this many times, I'll state it again.

Get your shit out of YouTube and any other Google product.

Google is a dumb, faceless, fully automated company only interested in extracting as much data as possible from its users, force them to swallow as many ads as possible, all without caring about listening to them (both consumers and creators), under the faulty assumption that they're too big for users and consumers to live without them. They simply don't deserve anybody using their shitty products anymore.

The error in this case is quite obvious. YouTube's scanner incorrectly identified the teacher's recording of Moonlight Sonata as a copyrighted reinterpretation of the same piece of music originally written by a guy who actually died 200 years ago. And I can't completely put the blame on Google's AI: the notes are technically the same, the beat might also be the same, if you calculate an FFT of the audio you'll probably also come up with similar spectral signatures. But a human listener will IMMEDIATELY notice that was played by the teacher IS NOT the the same as the copyrighted piece of music.

The problem is: who is accountable for these mistakes? Who shall I reach out to if Google's foggy algorithms make a mistake? And, in the case of educators and creators who actually do that for a job, who will compensate them for the revenue they have lost because of algorithmic errors?

Until Google can provide an answer to these questions, I repeat: keep your ass away from anything that has their name on it. They are not reliable, the risk of losing your data, your account or your followers because of random automated decision is very high, and the probability of getting a real human to assist you is very low.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#263

Post by riskable »

qayxc wrote: post #117
opan wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the centralization plus trusting a company is the issue, not a lack of cost meaning we aren't deserving of a good experience. Look at Peertube or other free as in freedom options.

> I think the centralization plus trusting a company is the issue, I think that's not the issue at all. The problem is simply scale. Currently, about 5000 videos are uploaded to YT every minute . If just 0.1% of them have any potential copyright issues, that's 5 potentially complex cases per minute or 7200 per day. No amount of human review will be able to decide this in a timely manner. The piano teacher's case is j…

> "fair use" cases, which are incredibly hard to decide.

Only a judge acting in a court of law can decide if something is fair use. All else is speculation.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#264

Post by slavik81 »

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #148
sofixa wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And otherwise they'd get sued for hosting copyrighted content, which will result in hefty fines and jail( didn't the US want to get Kim Dotcom from NZ precisely for that?)

They won’t get sued if they follow the DMCA process which is very different from what they are doing.

They were sued [1]. The lawsuit lasted 7 years and ended in a settlement. The terms were not public, but I think it's likely they promised to institute a process that goes above and beyond what the DMCA requires. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viacom_International_Inc._v._Y....

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#265

Post by Nextgrid »

DreamScatter wrote: post #205
eru wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, false positives result in fewer scandals than false negatives here. So guilty until proven innocent seems like a perfectly reasonable, if very annoying, stance.

It's not reasonable to screw innocent people over.

It's reasonable for a for-profit company that has a monopoly.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#266

Post by pbhjpbhj »

snickms wrote: post #214
lightlyused wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went digging. APRA = Australasian Performing Right Association Limited ECAD = Escritório Central de Arrecadação e Distribuição SOCAN = Society of Composers, Authors and Music Publishers of Canada VCPMC = Vietnam Center for Protection of Music Copyright CS stands for collections society. In another age CS would stand for the Mafia. All but ECAD were found from here: https://www.cisac.org/

These collection societies are actually the opposite of the mafia. They collect royalties on behalf of the composers. If the composer has a publisher, the royalties are forwarded there instead (so the publisher can take their contractual cut). They are the only way to protect your work if you are unsigned (think struggling artists).

AIUI there collection societies are collectives of publishers and look out for the people who own the publishing companies, they're not making sure the publishing companies act fairly and justly, they're making sure they sue people who are too small to defend themselves in order to boost the collections in order to support the publishing company owners.

Maybe I'm wrong ... counter evidence welcomed.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#267

Post by [deleted] »

crescentfresh wrote: post #238
daedalus_f wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Wikka Moonlight" seems to be the name of the audio the copyright claim is originating from rather than the organisation claiming the copyright. [1] The audio contains a recording of Moonlight Sonata with a load of added reverb. The uploading channel is "Alice Violet Molland - Topic". The "Topic" bit generally gets added to a channel name when a music distributer (like DistroKid [2]) publishes music to youtube on beh…

> The uploading channel is "Alice Violet Molland - Topic" I went searching around using that info and came across a (similarly outraged) thread on google's support forums about this video, in which someone named longzijun seemed to make a reasonably sound counter-argument: https://support.google.com/youtube/thread/108213944/a-posted... > Then she files a counter-notification. The appeals process has not been complete…

[deleted]

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#268

Post by T-hawk »

qwertox wrote: post #46
jeffwass wrote: post #10

Summary for those that don’t want to watch the video : - Pianist creates YouTube video demonstrating how to play Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata - part of this video includes her playing Moonlight Sonata (of course) - YouTube has a new ‘feature’ that scans submitted videos prior to publication to identify potentially copyrighted material - her video is found to include copyrighted material. She is certain this is a mist…

1) Feed a computer with MIDI files of public domain music and render it as audio 2) Upload to YouTube 3) File copyright dispute to YouTube for any (future?) uploaded video which contains the music which used to be in the public domain 4) Have Google reject the videos 5) Create a site or an app which allows you to license that public domain music for a fee. 6) Notify YouTube who has licensed this public domain music.…

> Or maybe they just recognize that their AI is causing more harm than good.

Google recognizes that these flaws in their AI aren't worth caring about. Google doesn't have any mission or obligation to help the world share videos. Google cares about Google's profits. And they've found that the expedient way to do that is just let the AI be overzealous with rejecting, because the cost of a false positive is infinitesimally tiny and the cost of a false negative (real copyright violation) is so much higher.

How do we fix this? Competition. We need a Google/Youtube competitor so that users will choose the platform that does copyright recognition better.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#270

Post by Nextgrid »

rndgermandude wrote: post #145
Iv wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so?

For starters, they should actually follow the DMCA. The DMCA gives affected people a defined way to counter-notice, and then the entity who filed the initial DMCA notice can either sue within 14 days or the content gets restored. Instead Google chose to evaluate "disputes" themselves, with algorithms and "AI", and reject disputes. Rejecting counter-notices is absolutely NOT something the DMCA mandates or even suggest…

> Youtube had $6 BILLION in ad revenue in the last quarter (not year), so they could certainly afford to hire some people. In the end it might even be a profitable investment, as fewer good content is pruned from Youtube for wrong copyright issues, leading to more ad revenue.

Who is paying said ad revenue though? Could a large chunk of it come from the same companies/industries who currently enjoy the broken state of YouTube's DMCA process?

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