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Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

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Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#251

Post by banana_giraffe »

ozim wrote: post #103
qwertox wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Feed a computer with MIDI files of public domain music and render it as audio 2) Upload to YouTube 3) File copyright dispute to YouTube for any (future?) uploaded video which contains the music which used to be in the public domain 4) Have Google reject the videos 5) Create a site or an app which allows you to license that public domain music for a fee. 6) Notify YouTube who has licensed this public domain music.…

There are disputes over "white noise" videos so it is already as bad as it gets.

I don't think it's hit YouTube, but there are people and/or bots enforcing a copyright on silence:

https://www.youredm.com/2015/11/28/soundcloud-finally-goes-t...

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#252

Post by zucker42 »

GordonS wrote: post #171
jeffwass wrote: post #10

Summary for those that don’t want to watch the video : - Pianist creates YouTube video demonstrating how to play Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata - part of this video includes her playing Moonlight Sonata (of course) - YouTube has a new ‘feature’ that scans submitted videos prior to publication to identify potentially copyrighted material - her video is found to include copyrighted material. She is certain this is a mist…

IMO the biggest issue with all this is the lack of a suitable appeals process, handled by humans. Would such a process be expensive? Yes, but you can't have it both ways, enabling copyright holders to lodge spurious claims at will, and not allow content creators - who the entire platform is built on! - to disclaim them. Would such a process be expensive? Yes, of course - but YouTube can very well afford it.

I think the biggest issue is that the burden of proof and all the risk is on the person who's video is being claimed. False DMCA claims are free, practically riskless, and require no evidence.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#253

Post by blunte »

amelius wrote: post #211
sixQuarks wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the copyright holder should have to pay for a human review, where the content creator agrees to pay the cost if it turns out to indeed be a true copyright infringement. This would get rid of all bots and most false claims

That would be too much in favor of the little guy, I'm afraid, and probably doesn't align well with preexisting deals with the music industry.

If the little guy is indeed little and is earning little or none from their content, then is the copyright holder being harmed? Or is the copyrighted material being promoted, thereby increasing the potential value of that original material?

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#254

Post by manquer »

seaman1921 wrote: post #176

YouTube's Copyright System Isn't Broken. The World's Is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Jwo5qc78QU

As much I love tom scott, he is ignoring the choices that YouTube made along the way were that precisely that choices. They didn't have to become this kind of platform.

Tom himself is owning/promoting nebula an alternative platform with quality curated content.

Youtube either could have become a pure user generated platform not engaging with big biz, and strictly following DMCA only : counter notice is not for Google's to review merit , claims like above are penalized, you have to take it court if there is a counter notice, no three strikes nonsense, no flawed content ID system - all of this is placate big biz.

Alternatively they could have become a curated content platform (like nebula) them wanting to do everything is why we are here.

Every other user content platform in video or otherwise is working perfectly fine with DMCA framework, they all have considerably less resources than Google.

P.S. Google's inability to put people to support content creators and this dispute process even for creators with 100' of millions of views is simply about Google culture of not believing in user/creater support (product) , big biz sure gets human support.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#255

Post by noobermin »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #247

I feel like the fundamental issue here with these giant tech companies is their scale has outgrown the capabilities of their AI . They've all basically bowed down to the mantra of "AI will solve everything", and indeed they are so big that getting human customer support at the scale they need would be a huge financial hit, even for them. But here is a situation where any rational human can say "this is crazy, anyone…

This entire episode is a great example of how the SV crowd really is full of groupthink and ideology despite their veneer of being rational. Everyone who isn't in the SV RDF can see the limits of AI today for example youtube copyright strikes, failures of AVs to take over the streets, and so on and so on. AI is useful but it clearly has limitations but the industry can't recognize it because they're high on their own supply.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#256

Post by cdot2 »

redwall_hp wrote: post #242
lovelyviking wrote: post #138

Actually I doubt that you can avoid abusing current copyright laws. Also because there is no such "right" in nature. If you wish monopoly call it for what it is and have laws in accordance. Such "right" shouldn't exist in the first place or at least in the current form. Copy process is the way people learn and progress. Copy process is essential for spreading knowledge and development. When you learn you copy. When y…

Better terms for copyright include "imaginary property" and "bourgeoise pseudocapital." Not only does copyright hinder creativity and infringe upon your natural right to copy, but it doesn't even benefit artists so much as companies who pay them a pittance while wielding the law as a cudgel to protect their imaginary fiefdom. The world needs less ownership, not more.

People will complain about copyright precisely until they have some creative work of theirs sold by someone else. Professional authors cannot exist without copyright.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#257

Post by trasz »

qayxc wrote: post #233
emidln wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 7200 per day Let's say it takes 5 minutes to properly adjudicate a dispute. 5 minutes allows 20 per person-hour. An 8 hour shift could resolve 160 reviews. 7200 / 160 = 45 shifts per day to review all of the hypothetical copyright issues. I don't think that's required, and the number of requested reviews is going to be some fraction of that. Requiring google to spread out under 50 shifts over a 24 period in order t…

> Let's say it takes 5 minutes to properly adjudicate a dispute. That's highly unrealistic, but review alone would take at least twice as long, since the average video length is about 12 minutes. How would you find out in just 5 minutes whether a monetization claim is justified? Not every case is as clear as the piano teacher's case. Keep in mind that this isn't a DMCA takedown request either - it's about a party tha…

You don't need to review the whole video, the accusing side should provide the exact time at which the alleged violation happens.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#258

Post by adrr »

GordonS wrote: post #171
jeffwass wrote: post #10

Summary for those that don’t want to watch the video : - Pianist creates YouTube video demonstrating how to play Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata - part of this video includes her playing Moonlight Sonata (of course) - YouTube has a new ‘feature’ that scans submitted videos prior to publication to identify potentially copyrighted material - her video is found to include copyrighted material. She is certain this is a mist…

IMO the biggest issue with all this is the lack of a suitable appeals process, handled by humans. Would such a process be expensive? Yes, but you can't have it both ways, enabling copyright holders to lodge spurious claims at will, and not allow content creators - who the entire platform is built on! - to disclaim them. Would such a process be expensive? Yes, of course - but YouTube can very well afford it.

Copyright enforcement should be on the copyright holders. YouTube shouldn’t have to build AI to scan for copyrighted material. Copyright holders need to a person verify all copyright claims and be liable for the opposite exact same amount of damages that would be rewarded for legitimate copyright claim.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#259

Post by grayclhn »

JeremyNT wrote: post #208
dylan604 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing the next Weird Al has already been disillusioned with the copyright ban hammer.

Weird Al himself was well aware of this issue, and famously would only parody songs after receiving permission from the authors.

Permission from the authors is unfortunately different from permission by the copyright holders. IIRC Weird Al did it more for goodwill than legality.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#260

Post by modzu »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #247

I feel like the fundamental issue here with these giant tech companies is their scale has outgrown the capabilities of their AI . They've all basically bowed down to the mantra of "AI will solve everything", and indeed they are so big that getting human customer support at the scale they need would be a huge financial hit, even for them. But here is a situation where any rational human can say "this is crazy, anyone…

the ai is built to deal with the peasant class. the ai occassionaly abuses them, because the peasants have no power. but nobody cares about the peasants except other peasants. the peasants are fed enough (you tube mostly works for them) just enough to keep them content and any sort of uprising is quelled. content enough in their toil (creating content), the ai grows stronger.
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