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Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

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Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#231

Post by throwaway0b1 »

chrismorgan wrote: post #219
throwaway0b1 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had the same experience (although I don't remember if it was specifically the melody being claimed). I don't always bother to dispute them (in my understanding, most of them just claim ad revenue, and we don't run ads), but sometimes it annoys me enough that I do. (The organist and people singing are pretty clearly pictured, and I get especially annoyed when it's a capella.)

> we don't run ads Historically Google only put ads when requested by the channel, which required a fairly significant threshold of views and subscribers and supposedly manual review by Google. Some time last year they started a switch towards serving ads on all videos, regardless of the preferences of the channel (whether you’re big or small, whether you want ads or not), which I hear has been progressing steadily f…

True, this is also something I should look into further (also, for example, to make sure that they don't force ads when a copyright claim is put on).

Of course, that I don't ever look at it without an ad blocker makes it somewhat more difficult.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#232

Post by chrismorgan »

throwaway0b1 wrote: post #231
chrismorgan wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we don't run ads Historically Google only put ads when requested by the channel, which required a fairly significant threshold of views and subscribers and supposedly manual review by Google. Some time last year they started a switch towards serving ads on all videos, regardless of the preferences of the channel (whether you’re big or small, whether you want ads or not), which I hear has been progressing steadily f…

True, this is also something I should look into further (also, for example, to make sure that they don't force ads when a copyright claim is put on). Of course, that I don't ever look at it without an ad blocker makes it somewhat more difficult.

My reading of the situation at the time was that if there was a copyright claim, the video would be monetised in certain regions (depending on the claimant). So once I cottoned on to the situation, I always disputed the claims before publishing, so that no one would be fed ads. Now, who knows. Once I returned from India to Australia I stopped uploading the videos personally, and I don’t intend to publish any of my own stuff that I might make to YouTube.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#233

Post by qayxc »

emidln wrote: post #209
qayxc wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the centralization plus trusting a company is the issue, I think that's not the issue at all. The problem is simply scale. Currently, about 5000 videos are uploaded to YT every minute . If just 0.1% of them have any potential copyright issues, that's 5 potentially complex cases per minute or 7200 per day. No amount of human review will be able to decide this in a timely manner. The piano teacher's case is j…

> 7200 per day Let's say it takes 5 minutes to properly adjudicate a dispute. 5 minutes allows 20 per person-hour. An 8 hour shift could resolve 160 reviews. 7200 / 160 = 45 shifts per day to review all of the hypothetical copyright issues. I don't think that's required, and the number of requested reviews is going to be some fraction of that. Requiring google to spread out under 50 shifts over a 24 period in order t…

> Let's say it takes 5 minutes to properly adjudicate a dispute.

That's highly unrealistic, but review alone would take at least twice as long, since the average video length is about 12 minutes.

How would you find out in just 5 minutes whether a monetization claim is justified? Not every case is as clear as the piano teacher's case. Keep in mind that this isn't a DMCA takedown request either - it's about a party that claims the content in order to redirect the revenue.

So you seriously claim that on average you can find out in just 5 minutes whether one of the 6 license types [0] applies and the claimant actually has a case? If it was that easy, I doubt that court cases like [1] would take years. And that's assuming all the information is already at hand so no further communication with either party is required...

[0] https://www.bmi.com/licensing/entry/types_of_copyrights

[1] https://completemusicupdate.com/article/song-theft-dispute-o...

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#234

Post by IshKebab »

DreamScatter wrote: post #204
cma wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most audio codecs by now use perceptual noise substitution, which potentially substitutes in identical noise (I think it just EQs it?).

no, the mp3 codec actually deletes humanly inaudible portions of the frequency spectrum to reduce storage, this data isn't recoverd or replaced or referred when played back again, it's lost information. what is removed is based on human perception limits for audio

He is referring to modern codecs, not MP3. MP3 isn't widely used anymore.

Modern codecs don't encode noise - they remove it during decoding and then add back artificial "comfort noise" when decoding, e.g. for film grain or background noise in voice calls.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#235

Post by throwaway17_17 »

dylan604 wrote: post #180
eru wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you need to make it a parody to be in the clear?

I'm guessing the next Weird Al has already been disillusioned with the copyright ban hammer.

Didn’t even need the next Weird Al. Al’s own YouTube videos were copyright claimed by his own label for violating copyright.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#236

Post by throwaway0b1 »

chrismorgan wrote: post #232
throwaway0b1 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, this is also something I should look into further (also, for example, to make sure that they don't force ads when a copyright claim is put on). Of course, that I don't ever look at it without an ad blocker makes it somewhat more difficult.

My reading of the situation at the time was that if there was a copyright claim, the video would be monetised in certain regions (depending on the claimant). So once I cottoned on to the situation, I always disputed the claims before publishing, so that no one would be fed ads. Now, who knows. Once I returned from India to Australia I stopped uploading the videos personally, and I don’t intend to publish any of my ow…

Yeah, I should probably just dispute them all at some point.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#237

Post by orestarod »

IshKebab wrote: post #234
DreamScatter wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no, the mp3 codec actually deletes humanly inaudible portions of the frequency spectrum to reduce storage, this data isn't recoverd or replaced or referred when played back again, it's lost information. what is removed is based on human perception limits for audio

He is referring to modern codecs, not MP3. MP3 isn't widely used anymore. Modern codecs don't encode noise - they remove it during decoding and then add back artificial "comfort noise" when decoding, e.g. for film grain or background noise in voice calls.

Got a source for the current usage of MP3?

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#238

Post by crescentfresh »

daedalus_f wrote: post #201
gabrielblack wrote: post #57

I can't understand why Youtube has no procedure to flag companies as "Wicca Moonlight” like scammer / troll so, after a certain number of infractions like that one ( pretending to be the rightful owner of the rights on BEETHOVEN music !), they are sanctioned in some way or banned. That to add some symmetry to the procedure to fight trolls trying to steal other peoples hard job.

"Wikka Moonlight" seems to be the name of the audio the copyright claim is originating from rather than the organisation claiming the copyright. [1] The audio contains a recording of Moonlight Sonata with a load of added reverb. The uploading channel is "Alice Violet Molland - Topic". The "Topic" bit generally gets added to a channel name when a music distributer (like DistroKid [2]) publishes music to youtube on beh…

> The uploading channel is "Alice Violet Molland - Topic"

I went searching around using that info and came across a (similarly outraged) thread on google's support forums about this video, in which someone named longzijun seemed to make a reasonably sound counter-argument:

https://support.google.com/youtube/thread/108213944/a-posted...

> Then she files a counter-notification. The appeals process has not been completed. She is only part-way through it.

> Once she files that and if she does it properly, the claimant has 14 days to initiate a court action against her or the claim is released, the strike removed and the video goes back online.

> Obviously, the claimant will not pursue legal action in this case.

> False claims can cause inconvenience for sure, but with the counter-notification system, they don't do long-term damage.

> Both the takedown system and the counternotification system are mandated by US law (specifically the DMCA).

> YouTube is not supposed to intervene in copyright cases. If they do so, they will lose their safe harbor status (again under the DMCA) that protects YouTube from being sued for hosting copyright infringing content.

> To sum up

> 1) the dispute process has not been completed in this case

> 2) your beef should be with US legislators, not YouTube

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#239

Post by ageitgey »

teachingassist wrote: post #106
ozim wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are disputes over "white noise" videos so it is already as bad as it gets.

Given that white noise is random, a recorded copy of white noise is its own perfect watermark.

Even if they were the case, this further shows how limited and dumb (i.e. not 'smart') YouTube's copyright voilation detection system is.

You (probably) can't copyright white noise because US copyright requires authorship. So in the same way that you can't copyright a phonebook's alphabetical list of numbers, you can't copyright random numbers rendered as sound, unless you did something else unique to it to exert authorship. It's just not something protected by copyright law. So even copying someone else's exact white noise sample is probably just fine.

The problem is that YouTube's system can only apply simple content matching rules and it counts any sufficiently long content match as a violation with no consideration of the work or context of use. Thats not how copyright law works. Copyright is a complicated system with all sorts of issues like fair use, derivative works, public domain, and works that don't qualify for protection. It's not a database query.

Re: Piano teacher gets copyright claim for Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata [video]

#240

Post by BooneJS »

My daughter got her first content claim when she was a 7 year old violinist. Proud father moment.

Dispute was allowed to lapse.

I’m on day 22 or so of another dispute from my son’s violin performance. I don’t see this going anywhere either.

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