Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

cnbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

771–780 of 825 posts

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#771

Post by salamandersauce »

jollybean wrote: post #649
indigochill wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Overall, Apple has not been a good steward of the App Store. But the question on my mind is: what precedent are we setting by legally mandating what a corporation can do on a platform they solely built? And are we pulling up the ladder after the incumbents have climbed it? It's one thing to mandate how much pollution a factory may leak into a shared water supply. But the Apple app store is not a utility or natural…

"what precedent are we setting by legally mandating what a corporation can do on a platform they solely built? " They key word is 'platform'. It's designed for 'broad public consumption', this is different than other, purely internal aspects of their service. So Ford or GM cannot stop you from buying other vendors stuff and tweaking your car. The very thought would be absurd. A car is designed to be at very least mai…

You don't have to make up an imaginary electric company example when the real life phone company pulled that bullshit (and still sort of do tbh). In the old days you couldn't just buy a phone or something that used the phone line like an answering machine or some other device. No you had to lease a phone from the telephone company that was approved and installed by them. Hell they tried to stop people putting rubber cups on their phone receivers. And they also happened to have a majority stake in the phone manufacturer too...

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#772

Post by salamandersauce »

donmcronald wrote: post #580
AlexandrB wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently had a change of heart on this issue when the prevalence of fraudulent apps on the App Store was documented[1]. It's hard to argue that Apple is providing significant benefit to either consumers or developers for their 30% cut when they seem incapable of reigning in obvious fraud. In addition, I think Apple pushing subscriptions as a solution for long term app funding (instead of upgrade pricing or other op…

> has resulted in apps as simple as text editors or todo apps needlessly becoming subscription services On the PC I have a mail app that turned into a subscription service and there are downsides. I have a lifetime license and get all the updates because I bought it before it went subscription based. Now it feels like there’s a relentless push for more features every month to justify the subscription. Every month the…

Drawboard PDF added subscription services after I bought it. Literally the only feature I wanted them to add was a lined paper template and they put that behind the subscription. Like I'm not paying monthly for that. Certainly not more than a few hundred sheets of actual lined paper cost which I would probably not use up for a few months...

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#773

Post by andresp »

username90 wrote: post #730
jpttsn wrote: post #724

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Restaurants sell a bundled experience. The use of their silverware is part of what I buy. You could argue that the restaurant shouldn’t be a gatekeeper. Other parties could let me enjoy a cheaper meal, competing to offer the most discounted silverware. My $10 burger could be $9 if I could rent a paper plate from a third party and eat on the floor. After all, the restaurant shouldn’t abuse it’s monopoly, right?

Does this restaurants operation constitute more than 10% of the silverware market? If not, there is your answer.

Also whoever came with this ridiculous analogy probably goes to a restaurant and then eats there their every meal for the next 2 or 3 years, thinks restaurants have popular multi billion marketplaces of silverware where they charge 30% to providers, which is a significant part of their revenue, and at the same time their own silverware factory which doesn't get the fee, lives in a world where 2 restaurant chains own 99.9% of the market...

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#774

Post by donmcronald »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #597
donmcronald wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or am I missing something? That’s cheap compared to the code signing racket on PC.

It's honestly about the same, cost wise. $100 for Apple, I've seen as low as $170 for Windows. If anything, Apple is worse because I require an Apple device to sign, though you can work around that with hosted CI. Apple actually arbitrarily adjusts the price for non-US regions. For some reason they want twice as much from me here.

You need an EV one to get past SmartScreen and I don’t even think they sell them to individuals (business only).

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#775

Post by donmcronald »

xnyan wrote: post #704
donmcronald wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or am I missing something? That’s cheap compared to the code signing racket on PC.

Huh? I run a few of my own programs on mac, linux, and windows - have not paid a cent to do so.

How do you get through the SmartScreen filter without warnings on windows?

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#776

Post by simion314 »

dmitriid wrote: post #753
simion314 wrote: post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and Google wants to subsume and replace the web with all things Google and Apple wants that web apps can't compete with native apps, like Apple will make sure a web based streaming app will not be usable. Why location API is not good in browser but microphone and camera is fine?

> and Apple wants that I love how you keep bashing Apple even if Mozilla fully agrees with Apple on this. Because only Apple bad, bad, bad. > Why location API is not good in browser but microphone and camera is fine? Just as camera and mic location access is hidden behind a specific permission dialog in case you didn't notice. For things like Bluetooth, HID, Serial API etc. both WebKit and Firefox (not just Apple, bu…

>Just as camera and mic location access is hidden behind a specific permission dialog in case you didn't notice.

Of course I know, the hypocrisy is that you trust your grandma with the camera permissions but not with a permission for a music player to run when the screen is turned off or with a map/fitness tracking page to get access to your location. If Apple devs would be competent they could implement it in a secure way like the camera API (or maybe the devs are competent and the reasons not to do it are financial)

Dude, Safari is worse then Firefox, stop showing the USB example. Anyway screw this, Microsoft was foprced to show a browser choice screen and Apple will be forced to show the same, it will take a few years but tit will happen. If you are not in EU you will not be affected at all. Since US will still use the inferior browser still all websites will have to code for it and native apps will have to be made to workaround the limitations.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#777

Post by simion314 »

simondotau wrote: post #759
simion314 wrote: post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If Google then makes Google Maps and Gmail exclusive for the iOS Play Store, all bets are off and the biggest reason why I prefer the iPhone is destroyed. And I will be sad and angry that other people wilfully supported its destruction. So is fine if Apple does not put iMessages on other stores or let open source people to create a bridge to talk with iMessages. If there are many people like you say 50% that won't u…

What has iMessage got to do with anything? Don’t blame Apple because Google’s ten attempts to build an Android messaging platform were all dismal failures. Nothing stopped Google from mimicking iMessage and making that the default SMS app. It’s not a question of who wants Apple to remain the sole gatekeeper of executable binaries, but rather who enjoys the benefits that come from that, even if they don’t explicitly r…

>iMessage

Is about your own hypocrisy. Apple is limiting iMessages and is fine with you but the notion that Google would limit the Maps app to their own store makes you mad. It makes sense that you are selfish and don't care about the larger picture

Anyway if you could look at the real world and not at the fantasy created by the FUD you would see that on Android there is no Facebook app store and Facebook is stiull present on the google Play store(and yes Apple and Apple users are not more special that for only for them Facebook will make a new store)

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#778

Post by adwn »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #564
adwn wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why would that be?

Paying for things using a payment card creates records associated with you and requires the permission of third parties.

I understand why you don't want to use credit cards too often, but you wrote "we've moved too far [...]". Why do you care whether other people use credit cards?

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#779

Post by dmitriid »

simion314 wrote: post #776
dmitriid wrote: post #753

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and Apple wants that I love how you keep bashing Apple even if Mozilla fully agrees with Apple on this. Because only Apple bad, bad, bad. > Why location API is not good in browser but microphone and camera is fine? Just as camera and mic location access is hidden behind a specific permission dialog in case you didn't notice. For things like Bluetooth, HID, Serial API etc. both WebKit and Firefox (not just Apple, bu…

>Just as camera and mic location access is hidden behind a specific permission dialog in case you didn't notice. Of course I know, the hypocrisy is that you trust your grandma with the camera permissions but not with a permission for a music player to run when the screen is turned off or with a map/fitness tracking page to get access to your location. If Apple devs would be competent they could implement it in a secu…

> the hypocrisy is that you trust your grandma with the camera permissions but not with a permission for a music player to run when the screen is turned off or with a map/fitness tracking page to get access to your location.

Ah, the tired old "your grandma" "argument".

> Dude, Safari is worse then Firefox, stop showing the USB example.

Yes, I know. "Apple bad, Safari bad" and no amount of evidence that both Safari and Firefox resist multiple standards forced by Google will convince you otherwise.

You're so blind to your own bias that you didn't even see that I never mentioned USB even once (even though it is one of "considered harmful by both Firefox and Safari").

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#780

Post by paulmd »

tolmasky wrote: post #559
paulmd wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consoles are also effectively a duopoly, and yet Microsoft has argued that they should be allowed to keep third-party app stores off the Xbox while also signing on to the lawsuit to try and force Apple to open up their own.

I feel like you stopped reading my comment as soon as you hit the word "duopoly". Look at the specific reasons I gave why phone AppStores are different: they are increasingly necessary for everyday life. COVID-tracking, political interaction, school courses, paying for parking, etc. etc. The day XBox becomes one of the few ways to do these things, and not primarily a means to play video games, then it would be approp…

at the end of the day there is always an alternative to ios though: the other OS that controls 87% of the market.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/272307/market-share-fore...

ios isn't a monopoly, there is always the other option. The option that has six times the marketshare.

again, this is literally about shutting down any possibility of a company ever offering a "walled garden" model. It's not that apple is dominant in the market - they're not. You have many many alternatives to using their devices, they're about an eighth of the market. But even that eighth cannot be allowed to exist, that business model has to be shut down permanently.

Post reply on HN