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Type 2 diabetes cure, extreme diet

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Re: Type 2 diabetes cure, extreme diet

#31

Post by arn »

ghshephard wrote: post #7
rvanniekerk wrote: post #2

Diet can be used as a form of cure for nearly every disease that exist. So why not use it more often? Oh right, there is no money to be made...

And, just imagine, if people stuck to a simple diet (Zone, Atkins, Paleo, South Beach, Mayo - hell, even Weight Watchers/Jenny Craig - it doesn't really matter, just chose _something_ and stick to it, they'll all get the job done eventually) + a couple hours of walking a day + some progressive resistive strength training. Can you imagine what kind of condition the average citizen would be in? The only problems with t…

"Zone, Atkins, Paleo, South Beach, Mayo - hell, even Weight Watchers/Jenny Craig"

Seems there's a lot of money to be made in dieting.

Re: Type 2 diabetes cure, extreme diet

#32

Post by G3P »

tellitlikeitis wrote: post #27
[deleted] wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

Since you claim Max Gerson was "a complete quack", does that mean that people who were helped by following the advice of eating fresh fruits and vegetables to the exclusion of other foods (which almost nobody does) were just coincindentally made healthier? And we should dismiss that advice because you don't like Gerson? What would you recommend their diet consist of if they want to prevent ill health or gain health?…

No, it means that he invented treatment regiments that weren't supported by any scientific evidence, and did so while failing to document or properly control any of his "studies," some of which were repeated and found to be not only no better than placebo, but actually harmful to patients.

If I call Dr. X a fraud because he claims coffee enemas are a great way to clear the body of cancer (Such as, say... Max Gerson did), yet Dr. X also believes that drinking water is necessary to sustain life, it doesn't follow that I don't believe drinking water is a great way to stay alive.

Re: Type 2 diabetes cure, extreme diet

#33

Post by G3P »

rvanniekerk wrote: post #15
zacharypinter wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to discredit (haven't had a chance to watch yet), but is there scientific evidence behind this?

Most people tend to discredit diet therapy because it's "not mainstream" or against the norm. Of course you don't see nearly as many "studies" on diet therapy as you do a typical medicine or pill, most scientists and doctors that practice alternative therapy are considered heretics (cooks, crazy people, etc) and banished from the "mainstream" portion of the medical world (the one with all the cash flow). Look up Dr.…

Max Gerson believed that cancer was a result of an individual lacking production of "cancer digesting" pancreatic enzymes - aka he was a complete quack. As a medical student dedicating the overwhelming majority of my spare time fighting conflict of interest infringement in the Pharma/Device-physician relationship, and in addition attempting to permanently establish evidence-based standards for patient care, its advice like yours that take the whole fucking thing two steps back. Do sick people a favor, and keep your ignorant statements to yourself.

Re: Type 2 diabetes cure, extreme diet

#34

Post by arn »

ghshephard wrote: post #18
arn wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a tin-foil-hat conspiracy theory reaction. Define "use it more often". Doctors recommend diet and exercise all the time. It's the first thing to recommend to patients. It's simply very hard for people to accomplish it, and the vast majority of people either can't or won't lose weight.

"It's the first thing to recommend to patients." I'm 42, I've been involved with two major medical systems for 30+ years, both in Canada and the United States (Kaiser) - for one reason or another, I've been to a doctor maybe a dozen times. For about 15-20 years I was either on the cusp of obesity, was always overweight - and certainly was never in the slightest bit of good physical shape. In that 30+ years, I solemnl…

"I'm 42, I've been involved with two major medical systems for 30+ years, both in Canada and the United States (Kaiser) - for one reason or another, I've been to a doctor maybe a dozen times. For about 15-20 years I was either on the cusp of obesity, was always overweight - and certainly was never in the slightest bit of good physical shape. In that 30+ years, I solemnly swear no medical official has ever made any recommendations about diet and/or exercise"

I'm 36, I was a physician for 8 years (no longer practicing). I recommended diet and exercise to many many patients for general prevention and certainly for anyone with type 2 diabetes. And this was considered standard of care. I was not the exception.

Re: Type 2 diabetes cure, extreme diet

#35

Post by jokull »

frankus wrote: post #14

It would be interesting to see if a fat- and protein-sparing fast (i.e. Atkins diet) would work as well. Apparently it's much easier to eat a semi-starvation diet by eliminating nearly all carbohydrates than by simply cutting back calories in general.

Good point. Reversing type 2 diabetes comes when insulin sensitivity is gained back. For this to happen I believe a low carb diet should be enough, not a caloric restriction, but merely the elimination of foods that spike blood sugar. Would like to see clinical results of a strict Atkins / Paleo type diet for this group.

Re: Type 2 diabetes cure, extreme diet

#36

Post by DennisP »

arn wrote: post #13
tellitlikeitis wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is lame-brain hand-waving dismissal in order to continue being lazy and essentially helpless in our personal health. Doctors make standardized dietary recommendations that are not enough to protect and heal against lifestyle diseases. Compare the 30% fat American Heart Association diet to the Dr. Dean Ornish, Dr. McDougall, or Dr. Esselstyn diets that recommend 10% fat and whole foods, not products marketed as '…

"The standard dietary advice is given largely because people can't make enough changes to even follow that, much less make the effort to have every single meal conform to something as seemingly 'radical' as a 10% fat diet." So you agree with me. People won't follow even a "moderate" diet. So why do you think they will follow a more stringent diet? But (as the OP does) blaming it on a lack of financial motives does pu…

Most people don't. Some people follow quite rigorous diets. Shouldn't they get the information they need to pick the diet that's best for them?

Re: Type 2 diabetes cure, extreme diet

#37

Post by wisty »

frankus wrote: post #14

It would be interesting to see if a fat- and protein-sparing fast (i.e. Atkins diet) would work as well. Apparently it's much easier to eat a semi-starvation diet by eliminating nearly all carbohydrates than by simply cutting back calories in general.

I'd guess that just about any diet would work. Type 2 diabetes is often triggered by bad genes, and excess body fat. I'm not exactly sure why. I'm guessing that if you have lots of fat, your body starts ignoring the "make more fat" message from insulin.

Re: Type 2 diabetes cure, extreme diet

#38

Post by schiptsov »

There is a significant cultural difference in the matter of treating diseases between West and East.

In the West people first use a drug (rather tons of them), then, if no progress was made, a medical assistance, then, changes in behavior as an inevitable consequence and a restricted diet as a last resort.

In the East (Tibet, for example) people at fist use shifting to an appropriate diet and behavioral changes, then, medical assistance and a drug (which is in most cases a placebo) as a last resort.

The differences between these two almost opposite approaches could be easily seen in the life expectation statistics between poor (common) people in Tibet/China/Mongolia/Japan and, say, Russia (where they use vodka, in many cases along with antibiotics, as the first aid) or US where the medicare is the way to make money, not to heal people, could be easily found in the net. ^_^

Re: Type 2 diabetes cure, extreme diet

#39

Post by mobileman »

wisty wrote: post #37
frankus wrote: post #14

It would be interesting to see if a fat- and protein-sparing fast (i.e. Atkins diet) would work as well. Apparently it's much easier to eat a semi-starvation diet by eliminating nearly all carbohydrates than by simply cutting back calories in general.

I'd guess that just about any diet would work. Type 2 diabetes is often triggered by bad genes, and excess body fat. I'm not exactly sure why. I'm guessing that if you have lots of fat, your body starts ignoring the "make more fat" message from insulin.

Body fat an diabetes type two are just correlated. Type 2 is caused by stressing how your body deals with massive sugar. Now, the life style that enables you to stress your insulin production will make you fat.
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