Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

cnbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

701–710 of 825 posts

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#701

Post by keenboy »

indigochill wrote: post #620
AlexandrB wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently had a change of heart on this issue when the prevalence of fraudulent apps on the App Store was documented[1]. It's hard to argue that Apple is providing significant benefit to either consumers or developers for their 30% cut when they seem incapable of reigning in obvious fraud. In addition, I think Apple pushing subscriptions as a solution for long term app funding (instead of upgrade pricing or other op…

> Overall, Apple has not been a good steward of the App Store. But the question on my mind is: what precedent are we setting by legally mandating what a corporation can do on a platform they solely built? And are we pulling up the ladder after the incumbents have climbed it? It's one thing to mandate how much pollution a factory may leak into a shared water supply. But the Apple app store is not a utility or natural…

These are very legitimate points. In my uneducated opinion, allowing other app stores to compete with Apple's would reduce the power of incumbents and allow Apple to compete on a level playing field. If another app store is better at filtering out spammy apps, or takes a smaller fee, then I just might install from their app store. It pushes Apple to improve their services than gouge as deeply as possible.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#702

Post by ericmay »

simion314 wrote: post #630
jquery wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just wanted to ditto everything you’ve said. I don’t think people realize how good we have it with Apple and how easily things could’ve gone in a completely different direction. Yes it’s a benevolent dictatorship, but right now it’s still benevolent. I get a lot of value out of the fact app makers have their oh-so-clever hands tied.

And do you think that if Apple offers 2 iPhones , say the "American Dream" and "The communist pirate dream for EU" , and you buy the "safe one" for you and your family, then what are the downsides? If the "American dream " version is popular then FB will still be on it so you won't lose your FB access, you will still be protected from porn or apps that are not Political Correct and some EU "Communists" would have fun…

Or if it bothers you so much just don’t buy one. You don’t speak for the entire E.U.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#703

Post by Orphis »

indigochill wrote: post #620
AlexandrB wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently had a change of heart on this issue when the prevalence of fraudulent apps on the App Store was documented[1]. It's hard to argue that Apple is providing significant benefit to either consumers or developers for their 30% cut when they seem incapable of reigning in obvious fraud. In addition, I think Apple pushing subscriptions as a solution for long term app funding (instead of upgrade pricing or other op…

> Overall, Apple has not been a good steward of the App Store. But the question on my mind is: what precedent are we setting by legally mandating what a corporation can do on a platform they solely built? And are we pulling up the ladder after the incumbents have climbed it? It's one thing to mandate how much pollution a factory may leak into a shared water supply. But the Apple app store is not a utility or natural…

Don't forget, they built the platform, but 3rd party apps are what gives it value. Very few people would use an Apple device if they didn't have access to their games or productivity apps.

Moreover, users pay a high premium for their device to access the platform. Why should companies also pay in addition to the annual subscription fee to their developer program?

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#704

Post by xnyan »

donmcronald wrote: post #588
lovelyviking wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forget about 30%! What about 100$ each year for the right to properly run your own application on your own iphone/ipad if you want it to work offline longer than a week? Or am I missing something?

> Or am I missing something? That’s cheap compared to the code signing racket on PC.

Huh? I run a few of my own programs on mac, linux, and windows - have not paid a cent to do so.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#705

Post by pyrale »

sixstringtheory wrote: post #552
codys wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This assertion ignores that apple makes a profit off the 30% cut. In other words: it doesn't correspond to a real cost to Apple.

Disagree. If Apple only had their Music app, they wouldn’t have to maintain the whole ecosystem that comes along with the app store that allows Spotify to exist as an iOS app. Maintaining that system is where the 30% goes. Would anyone then say Apple had an unfair advantage as to who could have a streaming platform on iOS? Spotify would be free then and are now to make a web based player like youtube or soundcloud.

> Maintaining that system is where the 30% goes.

Let's be honest here, the 30% spent by Europeans is mostly going to anonymous bank accounts in Jersey.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#706

Post by jpttsn »

heavyset_go wrote: post #652
indigochill wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Overall, Apple has not been a good steward of the App Store. But the question on my mind is: what precedent are we setting by legally mandating what a corporation can do on a platform they solely built? And are we pulling up the ladder after the incumbents have climbed it? It's one thing to mandate how much pollution a factory may leak into a shared water supply. But the Apple app store is not a utility or natural…

Apple and Google have a duopoly in the mobile app distribution market, and they're abusing that duopoly in an anticompetitive manner to prevent companies from competing with them in mobile app distribution. Anti-trust legislation gives regulators the right to order and prosecute companies for abusing their market positions and for limiting the ability of the free market to deliver to consumers better, more efficient…

Can you think of any situation where bundling would be acceptable?

Should e.g. a restaurant have to provide an open market for silverware providers?

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#707

Post by carstenhag »

nolok wrote: post #535
AnonHP wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Uhhhh, not a percentage ? Do you imagine AWS billing you a % of your revenue instead of a given price for a given service ? ... > It's ridiculous that it doesn't matter if my app has a 5$ sub or a 50$ sub, I owe them 30% anyway. What they provided is the same in both cases, they should be able to price it out to me. Their current pricing structure is not setup like a fee for services and infrastructure usage, it's…

I did, the EU did, and as a result their fees got massively regulated in the EU, below 0.5% ; on top of other reasons why this comparison is not fair and equal as discussed in many comments below (no market monopoly associated, and percentage actually matching the costs and expanses of those card issuers to their own providers [banks] as opposed to apple's fee being disconnected from the reality of the underlying cos…

The EU regulated the Intercharge fees of credit/debit cards, but not the total fees that a Payment Service Provider can charge a merchant. Those can still be 3-4% or so.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#709

Post by inetknght »

joshstrange wrote: post #691
inetknght wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for the very thoroughly detailed reply! > I'd be very wary of using it on anything new. That makes sense and I can understand it. On the other hand, the a text editor and todo app aren't exactly new apps ideas. > "Save this note to Dropbox" or "Open Twitter with this note's content as the tweet" and the list goes on. Perhaps this is a failing on my part again but... how is that an app problem? If the user h…

I'll try to keep this reply much more brief. I think the divide between what we think come largely from my expanding into talking about subscription service as a whole instead of just the examples you gave: text editor and todo app. I can completely understand why some people might be fine with a text editor or todo app that doesn't change much and I'll ceed the point to you that the speed of mobile platforms causes…

Again, thank you for a well-reasoned good conversation.

> Your broader point about subscriptions being forced into some apps that don't make sense is correct, I just think sometimes people throw the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to subscriptions.

I'm willing to pay for something that I spend a lot of time in it. Clearly the developer deserves to benefit from my benefit.

But I've been burned by phishing, scams, and malware. So I avoid anything that even looks like it. That undoubtedly throws out a lot of good software that I might enjoy. But it also means that the very same software has room to improve.

Thirty years ago, software had demos. Demos weren't laden with advertisements beyond "buy the full product to access this feature!". They didn't have clearly paid-for reviews. Most worked without locking my data after a time bomb expired. Many of those demos resulted in me paying for the software. Some of those demos resulted in me deciding that I didn't like or need the software. The demo fulfilled its purpose.

Way too many demos of games got me to buy the full release of those games. BBEdit, like you mentioned, had a Lite version.

Demos seem to be gone from the modern walled garden.

Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint

#710

Post by carstenhag »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #656
rockinghigh wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you can receive notifications even when the app is closed.

Doesn't seem worth it.

Saves a ton of battery, goes through all firewalls etc. Same applies to Google's Firebase push notifications.
Post reply on HN