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It's your device, you should be able to repair it

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Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#361

Post by operator-name »

JoshTko wrote: post #122
leoedin wrote: post #53

PCs and even most laptops have been very repairable for decades. You can still run Windows or Linux on a 10+ (20+?) year old laptop without an issue. The idea that a 5 year old laptop would be unusable or not get the latest version of Windows is unacceptable. Yet phones cost similar amounts and have nowhere near the repairability. A decade ago you could argue that it wasn't that important - specs were changing so qui…

The trend for lack of reparability in smartphones is because of consumer preferences. Consumers are consistently choosing devices that are smaller, lighter, higher durability, waterproof, cheaper etc. vs. devices that are more repairable that do not have those features.

For independent repair shops newer devices aren't inhenrantly more ddifcult to repair. It's just more difficult to source the parts or get around the "security features".

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#362

Post by simion314 »

CountSessine wrote: post #222
OrwellianChild wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you articulate what that has to do with repairability?

For one thing, I think it's an important point to make when someone else makes the, "look how repairability has regressed since the golden era of getting the Apple II schematics in the box with the computer!". At the time, design was cheap. Why not give it to your customers? It's not like they're going to go out and make one themselves. The fact that manufacturing is cheap now and schematics are not only the key to r…

>The fact that manufacturing is cheap now and schematics are not only the key to repairability but also counterfeit Chinese knock-offs is a problem worth understanding.

I think you have a BIG misunderstanding here. The schematics do not include any Apple secrets, it is the repair schematic that is only high level stuff AND this schematics are already on the internet so China has it already (so honestly stop bringing the China argument here).

Is the same with diagnostic software, many companies only show you a error LED and you have to send the device to a repair person for that person to use the software and tell your the error message. Making the software(or the Google doc) available that translates and error code numbers into error messages will not make iPhones insecure or allow China to copy them (btw isn't iPhone already made in China> wtf is this About China FUD?, China's Apple factory must have much more info then only repair schematics )

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#363

Post by operator-name »

JoshTko wrote: post #307
fsh wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does this crazy idea come from that you have to glue shut a device to make it waterproof? A rubber gasket and a few screws work just as well without compromising repairability. Wristwatches have been constructed like this for centuries, while being a lot smaller and lighter than any smartphone. Maybe it would slightly increase the BOM and assembly cost, but considering that it fits in the budget of a 30€ Casio,…

Look at this comparison. Fairphone has a smaller screen but is larger, heavier, lower quality screen, and is not dust/waterpoof, and costs double compared with the Galaxy S8. Fairphone only matches or loses on all other specs. https://versus.com/en/fairphone-3-vs-samsung-galaxy-s8

But also look at the AirPods Pro vs Galaxy Buds+:

https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/AirPods+Pro+Teardown/127551

https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+Buds++Teardow...

One has a zero whilst the other has a 7 by ifixit's rating.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#365

Post by olliej »

nousermane wrote: post #218
35fbe7d3d5b9 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We should demand that any device and any component in any device be second source-able Devices aren't built around discrete components anymore. That ship has sailed, we waved goodbye, partied on the dock, and took an Uber home. Now we're nursing the hangover. But hey, our phones are now marginally thinner than last year's phones, so that might be worth something. I don't see how we get back, considering the market…

You can choose to forgo owning stuff personally, sure. But that is not everybody's preference. And please don't pretend that "devices aren't built around discrete components anymore". There are plenty of discrete components in a modern phone/laptop/roomba/whatever, that could be replaceable/upgradable by advanced user or entry-level technician, but are not: - battery - screen - storage - RAM - list goes on and on...

Ram isn’t separate, storage is soldered on, screens have security sensitive components built in (the Touch ID in modern android devices), etc

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#366

Post by operator-name »

JoshTko wrote: post #122
leoedin wrote: post #53

PCs and even most laptops have been very repairable for decades. You can still run Windows or Linux on a 10+ (20+?) year old laptop without an issue. The idea that a 5 year old laptop would be unusable or not get the latest version of Windows is unacceptable. Yet phones cost similar amounts and have nowhere near the repairability. A decade ago you could argue that it wasn't that important - specs were changing so qui…

The trend for lack of reparability in smartphones is because of consumer preferences. Consumers are consistently choosing devices that are smaller, lighter, higher durability, waterproof, cheaper etc. vs. devices that are more repairable that do not have those features.

Smartphones are an interesting market. They've only been around 14 years and their rate of growth and improvements have been staggering. Just a few years ago every new generation brought a leap in performance, battery, features or design.

Increasingly consumers are not buying phones every year but every two or even three years. As a result manufacturers have been designing planned obsolescence and fighting against the right to repair.

We can see from the results of direct ballot initiatives that consumers want right to repair. They want the choice if they accidentally dropped and cracked the screen to buy a new one, get a repair from the manufacturer, an independent third party or even learn to do it themselves if they're feeling up to it!

So yes, consumers can want features over repairability but they can also be against barriers for their right to repair at the same time.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#367

Post by Guest42 »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #102
corty wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The expected use time of a dishwasher is 10 years. Which is a machine with mechanical parts and a lot of wear and tear, corrosive chemicals, decaying seals, etc. A computer with fewer movable parts and a higher price should last longer. That software manufacturers don't support that notion is a problem that needs to be dealt with.

If you read again, the claim is that after a failed Windows 10 update that device ran another 7 years on Ubuntu. As Windows 10 was launched less than 7 years ago, that is a lie.

I don’t have an exact timeframe in my head and wrote things on the fly. The point is that Ubuntu is going perfectly fine and will continue to do so whereas windows bricked the system. I also think it’s common practice with year estimation to round up to the next year.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#369

Post by olliej »

6510 wrote: post #321
8note wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure consumers per se want it, but that companies think it's what consumers want, and only make things like that. It's a self fulfilling prophecy that customers will buy it. I dont have another choice

Manufacturers want planned obsolesce more than anyone. The problem in my view is that we take limited resources and combine it with slave labor to create landfill. Those few years of usage are not even that relevant. Recycling should be the first goal then repair ability. I think we can do this without the manufacturers drawing the proverbial short straw. Maybe we should get a partial refund when returning expired de…

Apple maintains devices for more than five years, the devices themselves keep on working for far longer than that.

It’s got nothing to do with planned obsolescence, new devices get new features because technology makes those features possible.

You get non-serviceable devices because users want smaller, faster, better hardware. Any latches, connectors, or sockets are purely subtracting from battery life as that’s the only part of a phone that can be resized, and even that is subject to constraints.

Repairable/serviceable means by definition more expensive and worse feature set.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#370

Post by operator-name »

swiley wrote: post #349
dec0dedab0de wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the only reason you need a SoC is if you're trying to make the phone small. If you don't care about size you can have discreet components. There are millions of people with big enough pockets (literally and metaphorically) , who wouldn't notice the extra weight of their phone. edit: discreet might be the wrong word because they would all be ICs but not quite a SoC.

Find me a low power discrete CPU and we can draw the board for another open source phone together.

RISC-V is not only looking interesting but promising.
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