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Type 2 diabetes cure, extreme diet

latimes.com

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Re: Type 2 diabetes cure, extreme diet

#21

Post by zacharypinter »

tellitlikeitis wrote: post #16
zacharypinter wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to discredit (haven't had a chance to watch yet), but is there scientific evidence behind this?

What a stupidly irrelevant question. Haven't seen this movie, but your question is more online group think pessimism and reluctance to take responsibility for our actions and lifestyles. What about the movie, apparently covering diet and nutrition, makes you think it has anything to do with a belief system based on stronger dilutions of chemicals having a greater effect than a weaker dilution? Seriously, some of the…

Wow.... No need to go hostile. Just trying to gauge if it's a serious response, or a superfluous one.

Re: Type 2 diabetes cure, extreme diet

#22

Post by tellitlikeitis »

arn wrote: post #13
tellitlikeitis wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is lame-brain hand-waving dismissal in order to continue being lazy and essentially helpless in our personal health. Doctors make standardized dietary recommendations that are not enough to protect and heal against lifestyle diseases. Compare the 30% fat American Heart Association diet to the Dr. Dean Ornish, Dr. McDougall, or Dr. Esselstyn diets that recommend 10% fat and whole foods, not products marketed as '…

"The standard dietary advice is given largely because people can't make enough changes to even follow that, much less make the effort to have every single meal conform to something as seemingly 'radical' as a 10% fat diet." So you agree with me. People won't follow even a "moderate" diet. So why do you think they will follow a more stringent diet? But (as the OP does) blaming it on a lack of financial motives does pu…

It goes hand in hand.

Doctors are not telling them a dietary program to follow, but generally to add or cut out a few things here and there. Instead, the time and effort goes into labeling symptoms and matching them up with various drugs, then experimenting over the years with the patient, adjusting combinations and dosages of drugs prescribed.

If the standard practice were to direct the patient to an appropriate nutrition and lifestyle program, with drugs being a last resort, then you would have a point.

The OP's point stands.

Re: Type 2 diabetes cure, extreme diet

#23

Post by G3P »

rvanniekerk wrote: post #17
G3P wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to rain on your parade, I do... But, you simply couldn't be further from the truth. Diet can only be considered a "cure" in an extremely small subset of all disease; and, furthermore, the word "cure" is practically never used to describe the effects of diet in any treatment scenario. It's true that there is no money to be made by Pharma, and that's why they aren't funding this study. My words may be harsh, but…

Right because desperate cancer patients that could clearly seek an alternative are being told that their only hope is Chemo therapy or death aren't being taken advantage of... God forbid someone suggest an alternative as simple as gasp diet.

There are instances in which chemotherapy is the only option, as advised by sound evidence-based medical research, just as there are instances in which diet is a completely acceptable treatment, and those instances must abide by the same strict evidence-based guidelines.

However, when people go around claiming that diet can cure the majority of disease it plants a seed in the minds of patients that have no option, patients that should be discussing palliative care with their physician, that all they need is a pot of "herbs" and a low-fat, vegan diet to cure their terminal illness. Then the physician has to spend an exponentially larger amount of time than it took to plant that seed to dig it up and move on, time s/he could be spending discussing palliative treatment or even working with other sick patients.

Re: Type 2 diabetes cure, extreme diet

#24

Post by ghshephard »

rvanniekerk wrote: post #17
G3P wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to rain on your parade, I do... But, you simply couldn't be further from the truth. Diet can only be considered a "cure" in an extremely small subset of all disease; and, furthermore, the word "cure" is practically never used to describe the effects of diet in any treatment scenario. It's true that there is no money to be made by Pharma, and that's why they aren't funding this study. My words may be harsh, but…

Right because desperate cancer patients that could clearly seek an alternative are being told that their only hope is Chemo therapy or death aren't being taken advantage of... God forbid someone suggest an alternative as simple as gasp diet.

Well, to be fair, I don't believe there are a lot of peer-reviewed, doubly blinded, placebo controlled studies that provide evidence that diet helps in most cancers. Lots of evidence that suggests you can avoid them in the first place, but once you have Cancer, you usually have to turn to modern medicine, in much the same way you do when you have something like HIV. Diet just won't cut it.

It's also important to differentiate diseases resulting from pathogens, versus basic body health.

Type-2 Diabetes is almost 100% a function of nutrition - it almost doesn't exist in many populations of the world that haven't been exposed to a western diet, and, quickly develops in those populations as they adopt a western diet.

Re: Type 2 diabetes cure, extreme diet

#25

Post by G3P »

antimora wrote: post #10

Is it a cure or reversal? According to WebMD, it's not possible to cure completely. Honestly I am confused between the two definitions. http://diabetes.webmd.com/features/reversing-type-2-diabetes

It's a reversal. Cure implies that a disease cannot, under most circumstances, come back due to the treatment regimen (whether that be diet, drugs, radiation, etc...). The reason it's a reversal and not a cure is that if a patient were to "stop treatment," which in this case means revert to a diet far above daily caloric needs, it is likely insulin resistance will return.

Re: Type 2 diabetes cure, extreme diet

#26

Post by zacharypinter »

[deleted] wrote: post #20
zacharypinter wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to discredit (haven't had a chance to watch yet), but is there scientific evidence behind this?

[deleted]

Asking for evidence is hardly an ignorant statement. I'd be happy to hear the evidence, it's just that claims like the above tend to set off a radar.

Re: Type 2 diabetes cure, extreme diet

#27

Post by tellitlikeitis »

[deleted] wrote: post #20
zacharypinter wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to discredit (haven't had a chance to watch yet), but is there scientific evidence behind this?

[deleted]

Since you claim Max Gerson was "a complete quack", does that mean that people who were helped by following the advice of eating fresh fruits and vegetables to the exclusion of other foods (which almost nobody does) were just coincindentally made healthier? And we should dismiss that advice because you don't like Gerson?

What would you recommend their diet consist of if they want to prevent ill health or gain health?

Ignore diet because Gerson was a quack? And just hope they don't get sick? And if they do, come to you for you to select what drugs you deem to have the least conflict of interest at the time?

Do healthy and sick people a favor, and keep your "intellectual" clown bullying from encouraging them to ignore the daily factors that accumulate to become their health or ill health over years.

Re: Type 2 diabetes cure, extreme diet

#28

Post by arn »

rvanniekerk wrote: post #15
zacharypinter wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to discredit (haven't had a chance to watch yet), but is there scientific evidence behind this?

Most people tend to discredit diet therapy because it's "not mainstream" or against the norm. Of course you don't see nearly as many "studies" on diet therapy as you do a typical medicine or pill, most scientists and doctors that practice alternative therapy are considered heretics (cooks, crazy people, etc) and banished from the "mainstream" portion of the medical world (the one with all the cash flow). Look up Dr.…

for the grandparent poster, the relevant studies on Gerson http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/gerson/patient/pa...

Re: Type 2 diabetes cure, extreme diet

#29

Post by G3P »

zacharypinter wrote: post #26
[deleted] wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

Asking for evidence is hardly an ignorant statement. I'd be happy to hear the evidence, it's just that claims like the above tend to set off a radar.

Zach, I was responding to rvann's statement, not yours. The "reply" button wasn't available on his for some reason.

Re: Type 2 diabetes cure, extreme diet

#30

Post by zacharypinter »

G3P wrote: post #29
zacharypinter wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asking for evidence is hardly an ignorant statement. I'd be happy to hear the evidence, it's just that claims like the above tend to set off a radar.

Zach, I was responding to rvann's statement, not yours. The "reply" button wasn't available on his for some reason.

Ah, thanks for the clarification G3P.
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