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It's your device, you should be able to repair it

bbc.com

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Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#141

Post by LocalH »

judge2020 wrote: post #49
lsllc wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think anything publicizing "right to repair" in mainstream media is a good thing. Agreed that for HN denizens, it's nothing new, but most people are just unaware of this topic. Glad to see the BBC running this.

Maybe, but it’s all over the place and thus might cause confusion for readers who will later see 'right to repair' and think it means that Apple should be forced to send iOS 14 to their iPhone 4S.

Maybe they should have to open iOS signing to all versions a device ever received when it becomes EOL? That also has implications with regards to preservation - if you can never install a given version of the OS again, then how can you trust it is properly preserved?

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#142

Post by overgard »

thinkharderdev wrote: post #106
corty wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Updates that kill devices are at best a defect that is the manufacturer's responsibility to fix or pay for. At worst computer sabotage, which is a crime. Unfortunately courts have yet to get "bitey" on this issue. I guess it needs to hit a few more judges until the hammer comes down hard.

Are there cases now where an update bricks devices that are still supported and the manufacturer doesn't fix it? Genuinely asking as I don't know of any such cases.

I haven't had a device brick, but every time Windows 10 runs an update on my old macbook I usually have to revert it. Well, Windows reverts it itself; but it involves multiple reboots and I have to handhold it by holding down "alt" all the time so it goes into the right OS. Very annoying. Especially when I just need the OS for a quick thing and Microsoft has decided that I need to wait 30 minutes to use an OS I touch every couple months or so.

I know the argument here would be "well keep your os up to date", but the point is that the updates themselves no longer work on this laptop for whatever reason; yet microsoft insists on breaking my laptop every tuesday for these "critical" fixes that I never really need.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#143

Post by procombo »

jahewson wrote: post #82
balozi wrote: post #26

A persistent question in my mind is why do customers buy unrepairable products, from smart phones and high-tech tractors. Why is the market failing? Or is it working perfectly?

I think it would help to ask: repairable by whom? And at what cost? Apple will replace an iPhone screen for ~$100. I’m fine with that. But my washing machine which is repairable and has parts and schematics available from the manufacturer will cost me > $400 in labor to replace a $20 part. Plus it’s > 10 years old so I know more parts will fail. I’m just going to buy a new one.

I agree. However, the logistics of repairing a 200 lb machine that sits in a cramped closet is very different. Phones are measured in ounces/grams and are easy to transport.

Yes it is more efficient for you to buy a new washer. Delivery and haul-away are great upcharges (and worth it IMO). They will then repair and resell your old one at a much higher rate than phones are being reserviced.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#144

Post by brap »

varispeed wrote: post #25

I fear this is going to turn into some ambiguous law that only big companies will be able to navigate through and you and me still won't be able to repair anything, because it will be deemed "unsafe". There also has to be many years of commissions, banquets, meetings, dinners, bonuses before all civil servants feasting on tax payer money will come up with something.

Maybe they should stop wasting their time (and our money) and simply let us decide for ourselves whether or not we want to buy a device?

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#146

Post by judge2020 »

LocalH wrote: post #141
judge2020 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but it’s all over the place and thus might cause confusion for readers who will later see 'right to repair' and think it means that Apple should be forced to send iOS 14 to their iPhone 4S.

Maybe they should have to open iOS signing to all versions a device ever received when it becomes EOL? That also has implications with regards to preservation - if you can never install a given version of the OS again, then how can you trust it is properly preserved?

You can always install the old version, Apple just doesn't think they can optimize new iOS versions to make old phones work well with the new software (and the bloat/feature creep within).

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#147

Post by msla »

css wrote: post #2

This article moves the goalposts on what "right to repair" is several times. It generally means that manufacturers should not hide schematics from device users or disallow third party manufacturing of first party parts. However, the author states: > The law doesn't yet cover smartphones and tablets that she says are getting harder to fix. One problem is keeping older devices updated with new software. Now "right to r…

> Now the author has shifted "right to repair" to mean mandatory first-party device support and design requirements around repair-ability.

I'm sure mandatory first-party device support is better for the manufacturer than giving people the idea they should be able to control what software runs on their device. I wonder if that stance is a lack of imagination on the author's part or something more deliberate.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#148

Post by andrepd »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #76
fsflover wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That isn’t planned obsolescence. Yes, it is. Even though Apple devices last longer, after the support is ended, I cannot do anything with them. I cannot update, install anything. They effectively become bricks. If this is not planned obsolescence, then what is?

Except they don’t become bricks. They still work just fine. In fact, on some more recent unsupported devices, you can still redownload apps (but only up to the latest version supporting your device). Did the Apple II become a brick when Apple stopped supporting them? The IBM PC? Why is an older iDevice a “brick”, but not BlackBerrys or Nokias?

Precisely, the iPhone does not work like an Apple ][ or an IBM PC. After "support" is ended you cannot install software on your device. How insane is it, I'll repeat: you cannot install software on “your own” device.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#149

Post by rasz »

segmondy wrote: post #98
II2II wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the author kept moving the goalpost since we have lost so much over the years. Take that legacy software. For many technologies the software is not distinguishable from the hardware to the end user, yet faulty software could present a security risk or even pose physical danger. At the same time, vendors are dropping support for software at an accelerated rate while making it impossible to use third party fixe…

Are they also going to force "the right to sell" instead of rent? Nothing is stopping companies from renting instead of selling their products. We already see that with software, no one is trying to sell software these days, it's all subscriptions. It could happen with hardware, in which case you don't have the right to repair since it never belonged to you.

EU already established that licensing software means selling it and comes with right to resale (usedsoft vs oracle)

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#150

Post by andrepd »

quotemstr wrote: post #118
AdrianB1 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right, but then let's make it mandatory for the end user to safely recycle all the components from their devices; they should not be allowed to sale or donate old devices, but have to recycle every piece of it. The purpose? Safe disposal. If you don't want to extend the life of the devices, keep it forever or safely dispose it.

Modern landfills are safe disposal sites. Recycling can be economically incentivized where it makes sense.

Make -> consume -> put in landfill is not a sustainable process.
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