It's your device, you should be able to repair it • Hacker News Board

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#101

Post by cbmuser » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:39 PM UTC

css wrote: post #2

This article moves the goalposts on what "right to repair" is several times. It generally means that manufacturers should not hide schematics from device users or disallow third party manufacturing of first party parts. However, the author states: > The law doesn't yet cover smartphones and tablets that she says are getting harder to fix. One problem is keeping older devices updated with new software. Now "right to r…

That’s usually because these people don’t have the slightest clue how industrial mass-production for consumer goods work.

They constantly think it’s always about the customer, it isn’t. The products are almost always optimized for costs, nothing else.

If a manufacturer uses glue instead screws, they don’t do that to make it harder to repair. They prefer glue because it’s cheaper. The same applies for cheap components over high quality ones.

Want to increase the possibility of getting a durable and repairable product? Well, prepare to spend ten times as much.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#102

Post by AdrianB1 » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:40 PM UTC

corty wrote: post #85

tjoff wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Win10 was released 2015-07.

The expected use time of a dishwasher is 10 years. Which is a machine with mechanical parts and a lot of wear and tear, corrosive chemicals, decaying seals, etc. A computer with fewer movable parts and a higher price should last longer. That software manufacturers don't support that notion is a problem that needs to be dealt with.

If you read again, the claim is that after a failed Windows 10 update that device ran another 7 years on Ubuntu. As Windows 10 was launched less than 7 years ago, that is a lie.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#103

Post by libeclipse » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:40 PM UTC

> The European Environmental Bureau (EEB) says extending the life of smartphones and other electronics by just one year would be the equivalent of taking two million cars off the road, in terms of CO2 emissions.

Looking at you, Apple.

https://uk.gofundme.com/f/lets-get-right-to-repair-passed

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#104

Post by cultofmetatron » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:41 PM UTC

Workaccount2 wrote: post #52

david_allison wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fairphone[0] is a European manufacturer which does this (modular replaceable components, 10/10 on iFixit and usable by non-techies). In my experience it's the annual release cycle of Android coupled with the lack of OS updates by manufacturers which contributes to e-waste, closely followed by the lack of battery replaceability. My first smartphone (OnePlus One - 2014) still has the specs to be a perfectly usable phon…

Can anyone enlighten me about 5G? To me it seems to be absolutely nothing more than a marketing tool meant to sell a new generation of phones and phone plans. The fact that it is pushed so fervently just sets of red flags galore for me. 4G is plenty fast and works well for me. I see nothing gained for my phone by going from 100Mbps to 1Gbps(?). Nothing. But its pushed like the second coming of Christ.

this video should help https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-gGeAe-PJA

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#105

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:42 PM UTC

Koshkin wrote: post #70

leoedin wrote: post #53

PCs and even most laptops have been very repairable for decades. You can still run Windows or Linux on a 10+ (20+?) year old laptop without an issue. The idea that a 5 year old laptop would be unusable or not get the latest version of Windows is unacceptable. Yet phones cost similar amounts and have nowhere near the repairability. A decade ago you could argue that it wasn't that important - specs were changing so qui…

> or not get the latest version of Windows Not sure about this one: the continued support for older versions - yes, but the latest? Nobody can give you such promise (unless they explicitly do, for one reason or another).

I have a 10 year old desktop and a 12 year old laptop that both run the latest Windows 10 with no issues.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#106

Post by thinkharderdev » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:43 PM UTC

corty wrote: post #60

Guest42 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding software, I think that pushing updates that essentially kill devices should fall under right to repair. I generally delay my ios updates out of concern whether space and ram will get eaten up. There probably won’t be an os update that enables a new app or feature I’m looking for. I’m not one to run unknown software and with the walled garden can’t really download any executables anyways. Also had win 10 upd…

Updates that kill devices are at best a defect that is the manufacturer's responsibility to fix or pay for. At worst computer sabotage, which is a crime. Unfortunately courts have yet to get "bitey" on this issue. I guess it needs to hit a few more judges until the hammer comes down hard.

Are there cases now where an update bricks devices that are still supported and the manufacturer doesn't fix it? Genuinely asking as I don't know of any such cases.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#107

Post by AdrianB1 » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:44 PM UTC

duped wrote: post #56

swiley wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my interpretation is that there should be no artificial barriers. Don't hide schematics, don't lock bootloaders, don't use NDAs to prevent sharing driver code, don't prevent component manufacturers from selling to third parties.

I think requiring schematic disclosure and non exclusivity for venders of custom parts is entirely unreasonable with catastrophic first and second order effects. Particularly the latter. We want more contract manufacturing, not less of it. If you take away the ability of companies to negotiate reasonable deals with their venders, they'll just buy them out and vertically integrate.

When I was born all electric and electronic appliances came with a complete diagram in the box. I don't understand how disclosing the schematic has any negative impact of any sort. Also the vendor contracts in these cases are based on volume discounts which are not affected by non-restricted sale to other parties.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#108

Post by quotemstr » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:44 PM UTC

css wrote: post #2

This article moves the goalposts on what "right to repair" is several times. It generally means that manufacturers should not hide schematics from device users or disallow third party manufacturing of first party parts. However, the author states: > The law doesn't yet cover smartphones and tablets that she says are getting harder to fix. One problem is keeping older devices updated with new software. Now "right to r…

Why are you surprised? This is the common pattern of tech activism: start with a kernel of a legitimate grievance, grow it into a whole crop of outrage, and harvest that outrage to make new rules that actually make everything a bit worse.

Designing for repairability has costs both monetary and functional. Why should everyone have to pay these costs on the say-so of a few people whose main claim to legitimate authority is their social media follower count?

I believe this push for repairability is bad and that it will lead to bad outcomes for consumers. The market ought to be what tells us what product features are really important.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#109

Post by ska » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:44 PM UTC

fsflover wrote: post #96

ska wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would say it is artificially shortened by design choices. The design choices have to be made to artificially shorten the life, not for any other purpose. For example, I can make a device cheaper and use cheaper materials that wear out faster - that's not planned obsolescence. However if I include a little plastic tab that I know will break before everything else for no good reason other than making it break faste…

> the purpopse of apples closed update system was to shorten the useful life, rather than as a side effect of other product and design goals So what is the reason to prevent updates of software after the support is over? This is a classical software anti-feature.

I suspect the main driver was consistency of experience. Obviously they didn't always nail this.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#110

Post by rocqua » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 4:44 PM UTC

fsflover wrote: post #73

ncallaway wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If company does not want to allow consumer to repair a device- it ought to provide extended warranty to the consumer for a small fee. I would modify that: If a company restricts a consumer from repairing a device (either explicitly in warranty policies, or implicitly by producing devices that are hard to repair, restricting part availability, or not having manuals available), then the company must (not should) prov…

> hen the company must (not should) provide an extended warranty for all damage scenarios at cost. So would you agree on $1 million fee per customer? (which is what companies would probably ask if you made such law)

It states "at cost" so only the extra costs made for the repair