It's your device, you should be able to repair it • Hacker News Board

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#11

Post by corty » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 3:30 PM UTC

css wrote: post #2

This article moves the goalposts on what "right to repair" is several times. It generally means that manufacturers should not hide schematics from device users or disallow third party manufacturing of first party parts. However, the author states: > The law doesn't yet cover smartphones and tablets that she says are getting harder to fix. One problem is keeping older devices updated with new software. Now "right to r…

The general aim of "right to repair" is to extend lifetime of devices. All the things the author mentioned are means to achieve this, and all are necessary: Schematics, repair manuals, deliverable parts for a sufficiently long period and software support ("repair" also includes software defects of course). Sometimes also software extensibility and replaceability, i.e. no signature lockdowns and other DRM measures.

There are weak versions of the right to repair that are only suited to enable third-party repair shops, e.g. by making schematics and parts available to "licensed professionals". But that is not what is generally desirable.

I agree that the article fails to make this clear.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#12

Post by FridayoLeary » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 3:31 PM UTC

css wrote: post #2

This article moves the goalposts on what "right to repair" is several times. It generally means that manufacturers should not hide schematics from device users or disallow third party manufacturing of first party parts. However, the author states: > The law doesn't yet cover smartphones and tablets that she says are getting harder to fix. One problem is keeping older devices updated with new software. Now "right to r…

with all due respects, this article is neither extremely rich or information nor exhaustively researched. Its more like the kind of stuff you hear on BBC radio. Just a few interviews with people whose experiences you might not hear from otherwise.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#13

Post by qzw » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 3:31 PM UTC

css wrote: post #2

This article moves the goalposts on what "right to repair" is several times. It generally means that manufacturers should not hide schematics from device users or disallow third party manufacturing of first party parts. However, the author states: > The law doesn't yet cover smartphones and tablets that she says are getting harder to fix. One problem is keeping older devices updated with new software. Now "right to r…

Isn’t the underlying issue planned obsolescence as a business model? It’s anti-consumer and anti-environment, and maybe we shouldn’t incentivize it as a planet.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#14

Post by css » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 3:31 PM UTC

spamizbad wrote: post #9

css wrote: post #2

This article moves the goalposts on what "right to repair" is several times. It generally means that manufacturers should not hide schematics from device users or disallow third party manufacturing of first party parts. However, the author states: > The law doesn't yet cover smartphones and tablets that she says are getting harder to fix. One problem is keeping older devices updated with new software. Now "right to r…

You are conflating Right to Repair efforts in Europe with those in the US. Naturally, the US laws are more deferential to capital interests and is less consumer-friendly, and simply ask that companies don't ban the sale of components to independent repair shops, firmware lockouts of replacement parts that only the manufacturer can provide, etc.

What does the European definition of "right to repair" entail, then?

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#15

Post by swiley » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 3:31 PM UTC

css wrote: post #2

This article moves the goalposts on what "right to repair" is several times. It generally means that manufacturers should not hide schematics from device users or disallow third party manufacturing of first party parts. However, the author states: > The law doesn't yet cover smartphones and tablets that she says are getting harder to fix. One problem is keeping older devices updated with new software. Now "right to r…

my interpretation is that there should be no artificial barriers.

Don't hide schematics, don't lock bootloaders, don't use NDAs to prevent sharing driver code, don't prevent component manufacturers from selling to third parties.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#16

Post by danogentili » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 3:32 PM UTC

css wrote: post #2

This article moves the goalposts on what "right to repair" is several times. It generally means that manufacturers should not hide schematics from device users or disallow third party manufacturing of first party parts. However, the author states: > The law doesn't yet cover smartphones and tablets that she says are getting harder to fix. One problem is keeping older devices updated with new software. Now "right to r…

These are all absolutely valid and sane points.

Instead of arguing on the exact definition of right to repair, we should all fight for the right to truly OWN our devices, where OWN := we have the legal right to do anything we want with the hardware AND with the software (because you can't really distinguish the two, now that all CPUs come with embedded TPMs running parallel closed OSes with ring -inf permissions).

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#17

Post by fancyfredbot » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 3:34 PM UTC

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #5

A bit of a tangent, but I'm really surprised one of the android vendors hasn't focused on the niche of easy to repair phones. Maybe even making them four or five times the thickness of the latest i-sung devices. extra hot swappable batteries and the like. I know the ostensible reasons waterproofing, planned obsolescence, looking cool, and being light weight. Though I suspect the real reason is they're just chasing th…

Have you seen the fairphone? It's exactly this. The first one let you replace all components without any tools. The latest one needs a screwdriver (which it comes with).

You can upgrade a fairphone 3 to a fairphone 3+ yourself just by buying the updated components. It's pretty cool! But it isn't cheap.

https://shop.fairphone.com/en/

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#18

Post by bogwog » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 3:36 PM UTC

ilogik wrote: post #8

a good video about what the right to repair is and isn't: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvVafMi0l68

This is a really good video, it lays everything out clearly and explains it well. I even threw $50 at Louis's gofundme.

It's always bizarre to me to see regular people arguing against right to repair in online discussions. Literally the only parties who benefit from planned obsolescence is device manufacturers, and it happens at the customer's expense 100% of the time. Either these people are dumb, or (most likely) they don't actually understand what "right to repair" means, or at the very least are confused about it.

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#19

Post by maxerickson » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 3:36 PM UTC

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #5

A bit of a tangent, but I'm really surprised one of the android vendors hasn't focused on the niche of easy to repair phones. Maybe even making them four or five times the thickness of the latest i-sung devices. extra hot swappable batteries and the like. I know the ostensible reasons waterproofing, planned obsolescence, looking cool, and being light weight. Though I suspect the real reason is they're just chasing th…

Is there a market for it? $200 Android devices with a big battery and decent performance and so on are out there, so I wonder how many people are worried enough about a swappable battery.

Jitterbug makes the phone to sell their service, so it's not directly comparable (it does demonstrate that the devices aren't that expensive to produce).

Re: It's your device, you should be able to repair it

#20

Post by Chris2048 » Fri, Apr 30, 2021, 3:36 PM UTC

I think RTR is the wrong fight - things like controlling the actions of software running on your computer, and right to an API into that software are as, if not more, important. And on the mobile front, moving towards "apps" is the epitome of this (f you reddit).

Hardware is a harder problem, but meaningless if everything is locked down, or practically disadvantageous to modify, at a software level - corps can leverage software complexity by making those that go off-piste have to manage it all (e.g app-stores).