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Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

businessinsider.com

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Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#191

Post by danaris »

cglace wrote: post #88
Someone1234 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that like senior management typically makes decisions based on data and facts, rather than the reality where they just shoot from the hip using their "gut." By the same logic implied here, we cannot trust senior management to know what they're doing. PS - Also Google's measures of productivity are terrible, that's why they keep starting/killing new projects ever other week, and killed their golden goose in th…

I love how engineers pretend that they are the only ones acting rationally. It's as if they are playing chess and can never think there might be a reason behind the other players move, only their plan makes sense.

It is not at all required for engineers to be acting rationally, let alone for them to be the only ones acting rationally, for workers—of any type—to have a better understanding of what will let them get a good job done for the company than upper management.

This is especially true in large corporations, where upper management is very insulated from the realities of line-level work. It is also especially true in most publicly-traded corporations, where upper management is almost invariably going to care more about the trendline in the company's stock price than in their actual productivity, or even in the well-being of their workers.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#192

Post by TomSwirly »

ryan_j_naughton wrote: post #173
kyle-rb wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What grass though? This subset of employees seem to value working remotely above free food or massages or whatever other in-office perks. Work-from-home as a perk has a negative cost, so it's not crazy to think that companies might start offering it.

>Work-from-home as a perk has a negative cost Negative cost but also negative revenue / productivity loss if not done properly. Most data appears to show the hybrid model is the best for productivity. WFH several days a week, enabling focus and limiting distractions. Work from the office a couple days a week to enable coordination, connection, innovation, and alignment. This forced experiment in 100% WFH was clearly…

> Most data appears to show the hybrid model is the best for productivity.

Can we see the data?

> Work from the office a couple days a week to enable coordination, connection, innovation, and alignment.

I see you are fully buzzword enabled.

> This forced experiment in 100% WFH was clearly bad for productivity.

"Clearly"?

Can you back up your dramatic claims with evidence?

When I worked at Google, it was so noisy that I did most of my work from home anyway, but showed up for a few hours a day because I had to.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#193

Post by d0mine »

thwd wrote: post #128
sriram_sun wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quality of life improvement when you work remote is several fold higher. You have to experience it. I've been working remote (consulting) for about 4 years now. My wife has done it about 1/2 her career. We live in sunny SoCal (expensive, but very tolerable when you don't have to get on the freeways). Take care of No. 1 first. That is you. GOOG folks, please don't cringe at FB. There is no difference.

Personal opinion: Google carefully treads the gray lines of legality and morals/ethics. Facebook leadership, on the other hand, decided a long time ago that they care about legality only. They seem very proud of that decision, too.

Google might still have a better reputation in certain circles but it is unclear what company is actually worse for the world at this time (btw, if you have a link where somebody tried to actually quantify it, it would be an interesting read).

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#194

Post by TomSwirly »

Foobar8568 wrote: post #115
notdonspaulding wrote: post #14

What people say they will do when there's no cost associated with an action and what people will actually do once a cost IS associated with the same action are frequently 2 different things. Bob Lutz, in his self-aggrandizing book "Gutz", describes the initial phase of an automobile design project where a survey is conducted asking respondents whether they would prefer a vehicle with heated cupholders. It turned out…

If I had a dollar each time someone said they wanted to leave badly only to be still in the same company/position 1 or 2 years later....

I said this about Google. And I left. No $ for you, at least for this case.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#195

Post by tonyedgecombe »

DubiousPusher wrote: post #63

Friends and family keep asking me if I'm moving out of my metro area or if I'll move to the deep xurbs. But I've held off any such machinations exactly because of this. My employer has embraced WFH beyond the pandemic but all it takes is a couple bad quarters and a new CEO deciding that working from home is "part of the problem" and "work from the office" is part of some shiny new turnaround plan. And you never know…

We've seen an exodus from London, people buying houses in remoter parts of the country on the basis that they will be able to continue to WFH after the pandemic is over. Personally I think that is quite a rash decision to make right now.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#196

Post by jartelt »

underseacables wrote: post #5

I travel a lot because I’m in sales, so I’m constantly in and out of the office. I very much want to return to the office, because for me it’s a homebase, where I can connect with my colleagues. It just hasn’t been the same and I feel that my workflow has diminished without the communal nature of the office.

And that is totally fine. You and anyone who wants to go back to the office should be absolutely allowed to do so! The issue is more with the modest number of folks who prefer to work remotely and prefer not live near a Google campus.

If you are a high performer who has manager/VP level approval to stay remote, why would Google HR force you to move back to a Google office? They should just allow some folks to work full remote if they have support and approval from their managers, but instead Google corporate is saying everyone needs to be close to their office on Sept 1.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#197

Post by z77dj3kl »

theflyinghorse wrote: post #137
throwaways885 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. As somebody who has seen both sides of a hiring process like that, the reality is the vast majority of candidates are just awful. You can probably rule out nearly 75% of applicants right off the bat. Add in hiring laws, bureaucracy, immigration, negotiation, candidates withdrawing, and finding a good person who works for your team can take months.

Yes, could you elaborate on the awful nature of most applicants? Do you mean that they are not fit to make software or that they are not Google material?

The job market is a lemon market for employers.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#198

Post by [deleted] »

theflyinghorse wrote: post #137
throwaways885 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. As somebody who has seen both sides of a hiring process like that, the reality is the vast majority of candidates are just awful. You can probably rule out nearly 75% of applicants right off the bat. Add in hiring laws, bureaucracy, immigration, negotiation, candidates withdrawing, and finding a good person who works for your team can take months.

Yes, could you elaborate on the awful nature of most applicants? Do you mean that they are not fit to make software or that they are not Google material?

[deleted]

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#199

Post by jartelt »

spoonjim wrote: post #20

Google doesn’t care if most employees quit, they are replaceable. The few that they do care about, they will arrange unofficial exemptions for.

The large tech companies routinely say that hiring qualified engineers is their biggest challenge.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#200

Post by throwaway6734 »

throwaways885 wrote: post #136
throwaway6734 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Awful in what respects? I was under the impression that it was sort of like Harvard: lots of applications, but a good chunk of those denied could have just have easily been accepted if there was space You seem to have experience with their hiring and I have none (only applying) so I have much more faith in what you're saying than my preconceived ideas.

As in, a significant chunk of candidates cannot write code, have outright lies on their CV, have never used anything other than visual basic, etc... In addition, basic statistics suggests you need all new hires to be better than 50% of the existing company, or your average skill level will go down, which makes hiring just hard mathematically.

Can't you rule a lot of those candidate (other than CV liars) out algorithmically?

>In addition, basic statistics suggests you need all new hires to be better than 50% of the existing company,

This seems especially difficult when hiring graduates/junior roles due to the lack of unknowns.

Thanks for taking the time to respond!

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