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Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

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Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#461

Post by ben_w »

captainredbeard wrote: post #331
ben_w wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know if cows can suffer like humans can or not, so I am content to not get in your way. That said, I invite you to consider what you would and would not allow others to do given a hypothetical: if you genuinely believed that cows were just as capable of suffering as humans — especially given that cows lactate only after giving birth, and dairy cows live only for so long as their milk is worth more than the co…

> Most functioning adults can keep quiet about a simple preference but morals don’t work the same. Handling difficult feelings without acting out is one of the definitions of being a functional adult. You may have that backwards, though it is very consistent with the pop culture moral / philosophical (behavioral?) flavor of late.

Counterpoints: every religious war ever. The “war” on drugs. Prohibition. Moral crusades for censorship or elimination of porn. Rules against sex work in general. Sections 64, 65, 69, 70 and 71 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003. The religious affiliation requirements in the rules of succession of the British Crown. Forbidden foods in Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, and others. Western prohibition on multiple spouses.

The level of enforcement and punishment varies form instance to instance, from culture to culture, and from year to year, but there are cases even today where religious morality leads to extreme use of force: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/hindu-mob...

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#462

Post by chrisandchris »

jjcon wrote: post #2

> Vegan Cheese Is Ready to Compete With Dairy. Is the World Ready to Eat It? I’m vegetarian and my partner is vegan - I’ve tried every vegan cheese on the shelf. The answer is no because it’s not even close to ready. It might pass an initial taste test where you say, that’s not so bad, but then you pick up on all the things it’s missing. Sometimes the aftertaste is terrible, sometimes the texture or versatility. Mayb…

I would say one who says vegan cheese might pass for an alternative to regular cheese has never tasted something that passes as actual cheese [in Switzerland/France].

A lot of cheese you can get on this world has IMHO nothing to do with cheese in terms of taste, texture and the knowledge required to create an actual good cheese.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#463

Post by balls187 »

cheese_goddess wrote: post #427
balls187 wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She enjoys meat just fine. It's just milk proteins she is allergic too, and it's not an intolerance.

So she's not vegan then? I thought you meant that your friend is vegan because of her allergies and that you said that to give me an example of another reason to be vegan?

No, she isn't.

And my interpretation of the original question wasn't why someone wants to be vegan, it was why someone would want to eat vegan imitations of non-vegan food.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#464

Post by tpoacher »

danShumway wrote: post #459
tpoacher wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almond sherbet is the sherbet itself, not the milk drink, but I take the point. And I guess almond milk wasn't the best example to focus on, but I was referring more generally to the trend of intentional misnaming that I have observed. So, e.g., given your 'quacks like a duck' theory, I could happily cook a "mushroom risotto" with mushroomy chicken instead of actual mushroom, and that would still be a perfectly fine…

Honestly? Yes, if you made a mushroom risotto with chicken, and it was genuinely designed to imitate a mushroom risotto, then that's what I would call it: a mushroom risotto with chicken. What would you call it? Would you come up with an entirely new name? > Except serving that to a vegan claiming it's a "mushroom risotto" would probably make me an ass To be clear, the jerk part here would be serving non-vegan food t…

Yes that's what I meant by 'defendable direction'. Feeding 'actual' fried chicken to a person expecting "vegan fried chicken" is a dick move, because they're vegan. But the reverse would probably just be seen as a 'harmless "educational" joke', even though it's still equally dickish. But this perceived defensibility imbalance is partly what creates this confusion-inducing cavalier appropriation of food names.

I don't agree with 'turkey pepperoni' and 'blackbean brownies' as being comparable to 'fried chicken (vegan)' or 'ham and cheese toastie (vegan)' (though, ok, they were just examples, perhaps unfortunate, like my almond milk one). The difference is these are primarily recipes, not base ingredients. Obviously, the distinction is not always clear (is cheese an ingredient or a recipe? Is bread? But I would argue in most people's head these are ingredients, not a family of recipes). It's one thing to talk about recipe variants (vegan or otherwise), it's another to talk about a Costa vegan ham and cheese toastie (as welcome as it may be as a dish). It's just begging for confusion. And, I have zero clue what crap I'm eating when I order one.

I sympathise with the ingredients listing thing though. I'm effectively vegan-eating slightly more than half days of the year, and not having to carefully read through ingredients just to spot the errant 'whey powder' at the end would be very welcome.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#465

Post by curtainsforus »

barbazoo wrote: post #113
tbwriting wrote: post #73

Heavily-subsidized dairy takes up multiple grocery store aisles: crickets Vegan cheese simply appears: "we've been INFILTRATED"

Exactly. On the topic of grocery store real estate. It blows my mind how much space meat products take up. Huge shelves of beef, pork, chicken in all forms and stages of processing. It's crazy to me the degree of reliance and attachment to animal products we've been coerced into.

You have canines. We're evolved to eat meat.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#466

Post by bromley »

tommit wrote: post #460
bromley wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is quite amusing in the context I must say :D In the UK recently we just keep getting more and more new vegan substitutes, and vegan options in restaurants. It's an exciting time!

Same here, the variety of products seemingly exploded in the past year. I ordered this dried-peas-paste, which just arrived today, from which you're supposed to be able to make burgers, minced meat, and meat patties that aren't burgers (we call them Frikadelle here). Anyway, I'm excited so I wanted to share :D

Coincidentally 2 days ago I tried something similar for the first time - a pea-based powder that you could make burgers out of. It wasn't as good as Beyond Burgers (my favourite of all the frankenmeats I can get here) but, considering its powdery origin, it was surprisingly good! Hope you enjoy yours! :)

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#467

Post by boston_clone »

athms wrote: post #406
boston_clone wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How, then, do you consider forcing medication or stimulation on a sentient being, without their consent? Obviously if this took place with a human, it’d violate several kinds of rights. Now extend that train of thought towards other beings.

Where in my reply did I mention forcing lactation on people? That is right, nowhere. Perhaps you need some remedial reading comprehension.

Perhaps... but I was talking about cows.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#468

Post by Pfhreak »

raffraffraff wrote: post #110
Pfhreak wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Milk has quite a bit of sugar, many of the milk replacements are higher in protein and lower in sugar, or have different macronutrient profiles. Also, I like the flavor and mouthfeel of things like oatmilk. I'm also not convinced that milk is not a 'heavily processed' commodity. You are just using a pregnant cow to do a lot of the processing.

Which vegan cheeses have higher protein? In my experience they're all lower. Philadelphia lightest has 11% protein, 2.5% fat, 4.9% carbs. Violife slices are 0% protein, 23% fat (20% saturated) and 20% carbs. Pure trash.

I haven't been able to find cheeses. I was talking about vegan milks.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#469

Post by cercatrova »

adt2bt wrote: post #415
cercatrova wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ‘pure’ veganism as consuming no animal nor animal-like products whatsoever Yes? This is what veganism is, is it not? Vegans don't eat animal products at all.

They can eat animal-like products though, such as Impossible burgers or nut cheese.

Well those can be argued as to not be animal-like at all, but plant-based. Similar to the point cheese_goddess is making here as well.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#470

Post by elsyx »

TheDong wrote: post #226
js2 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to agree with this. I'm not a vegetarian, but if I were, I'd wouldn't eat imitation animal products anymore than I'd drink non-alcoholic beer. I'm happy to eat vegetarian food. It stands on its own as delicious. One of the best "burgers" I've ever had was made with black beans and wasn't trying to imitate meat. (It was at The Vortex in Atlanta years ago.) Imitation products that I've tried have always just lef…

> I wouldn't eat imitation animal products anymore than I'd drink non-alcoholic beer. And nor shall I drink anything with corn syrup as that's simply an imitation sugar product, nor do I eat chipotle burritos since they're a pale imitation of actual burritos. I eschew Cavendish bananas entirely since, just like a boca-burger tries to mimic a real burger, the Cavendish banana tries to mimic the real banana. You can ta…

> I eschew Cavendish bananas entirely since, just like a boca-burger tries to mimic a real burger, the Cavendish banana tries to mimic the real banana.

That's a strange analogy. Cavendish bananas are a type of "real" banana already. They're not "trying to mimic" anything, and are not at all like Boca burgers in that regard.

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