Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Their platform, their rules" – there are many people who say this, especially on HN.
Because they're all trying to build platforms, probably
Are we doing “temporally embarrassed platformers” now
EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint
121–130 of 825 posts
Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
But I think the key here, and probably a big reason Spotify went after Apple and not Google, is that on iOS you have to use Apple's app store. You can't distribute your app using your own infrastructure, or an alternative app store even if you want to.
Sure I understand that, but personally as an iPhone user I don't care. Users benefit from consolidation in the app store space, it much easier for me to have all my apps come from one app store with one set of rules and policies. I benefit from the fact Facebook can't bypass the App Store rules for security and privacy through side loading and an alternate store. Why do you want to take that away from me? Also as a u…
So if you personally won't benefit from it you should not be against someone else benefiting right?
If you want to buy Cyberpunk 2077 you have the option of at least 3 stores, I did not see any Steam user getting damaged by the fact the game is on other stores too.
Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not so much the percentage, as the ability to operate outside of the app store if you so wish
Can’t you just buy another phone? I honestly don’t get it - did people not understand what they were buying when they purchased an Apple device? Did Apple ever advertise openness and reneg on that?
That's irrelevant. EU has already ruled previously that if you, as a company, reach more than 10% of EU's population(about 30M people) then no, you can no longer get away with just saying "my platform, my rules".
The easiest way to think about it is - John wants to sell Mark a product that works on Mark's iphone. Currently, John cannot do that without a) getting explicit permission from Apple b) giving Apple a substantial cut, regardless of whether John wants to use their services or not.
This is what EU(and hopefully US very soon) has a problem with - Apple holds a gigantic market in their grasp and by controlling it so tightly and by forcing everyone to use their billing, they stifle legitimate business and competition.
Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint
#124HN when government does something they like about tech: This was a no-brainer. HN when government does something they dislike about tech: Tech is too complex for government to understand.
Is not all of HN, and people from outside US are not that anti-regulation, anti-socialism like US citizens. But this is EU rule, so if you are from US it won't apply to you anyway.
maybe, who knows. GDPR for example got more companies making "download my data" options, even for users outside the EU.
Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint
#125Unpopular opinion: This was a no brainer. Apple wanted 30% (or was it less for subscriptions?) on any business that used apps, no matter if they used apple infrastructure or not. Just think about it: one company is in practice entitled to 30% of what any other business makes (in any industry)!! Also, I think apple brought this to themselves by picking a fight with Spotify (on Watch support).
I think argument about 30% is not that good. There is a number of services that Apple provides like software distribution, updates distribution, reviews (even though they don't benefit software creator directly, they build trust in the platform and attract more users), invoicing, regardless on the location (this one is really big - getting a single invoice from Apple instead of dealing with potentially thousands of d…
> invoicing, regardless on the location (this one is really big - getting a single invoice from Apple instead of dealing with potentially thousands of documents)
Paddle.com do this as a standalone service for any digital product (I use them for my SaaS).
It costs 5%, and that covers all payment transaction fees too, they handle local VAT for the whole world, includes subscriber management tools etc, and they directly handle support for all billing-related requests from your customers.
30% is extortionate.
If it is a reasonable price, why not compete against alternatives fairly?
Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
What percentage is acceptable to you? Perhaps all percentage based transactions are rent seeking and should be made illegal. I’m on board.
The issue is it being a mandatory offering, as opposed to alternative stores. And it's designed to make a profit, not to secure iOS in any meaningful way. (For instance, the requirement on IAPs, despite them not requiring additional software distribution services or app review costs for Apple.) If Apple wants to secure or curate their platform, fine, but it's now a general computing device, and alternative platforms…
I don’t understand why people say it’s a general computing device. It’s clearly not nor has it been advertised as such.
If it actually was a general computing device you could just install an entirely different operating system onto it.
If Apple allowed users to install Android on iPhones but didn’t change iOS would that be an acceptable solution? If so, what’s stopping someone from just getting an Android device now? If not- doesn’t Android already fix all of the issues you’re describing?
Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint
#127Unpopular opinion: This was a no brainer. Apple wanted 30% (or was it less for subscriptions?) on any business that used apps, no matter if they used apple infrastructure or not. Just think about it: one company is in practice entitled to 30% of what any other business makes (in any industry)!! Also, I think apple brought this to themselves by picking a fight with Spotify (on Watch support).
> Just think about it: one company is in practice entitled to 30% of what any other business makes (in any industry)!! 1. No, this is limited to the AppStore, those businesses can operate elsewhere. 2. What's the alternative? How is any business entitled to free or low-fee access to a platform that Apple built and maintain?
> How is any business entitled to free or low-fee access to a platform that Apple built and maintain?
I see the argument all the time - I don't think it's really in good faith.
You could argue that it was in fact the app developers who built the platform. For the _average_ iPhone or Android user, how much time is spent in the default apps outside of core phone functionality (making calls, reading/sending sms)?
I would assume most people spend time in 3rd party applications like WhatsApp, Facebook, Spotify, etc.
The "killer app" of the iPhone isn't apple - it's the tens of thousands of 3rd party developers. If all 3rd party developers stopped developing for iOS then the iPhone would be a dead platform.
Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
If I was Tim Apple, probably allow third party payment providers (from a list of Apple-approved providers that have to handle disputes, unsubs etc in an approved way). And then charge a per-download fee to apps which offer in-app subscriptions without using Apple's payment option.
Slightly more hidden anti competitive behavior is still that.
For sure, but it seems like most law makers are easily distracted by some mirrors and a bit of smoke. I'm not sure the EU won't be, but that we've gotten this far provides some hope.
Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't care if Apple takes 90% I'm just tired of them telling people what software they're allowed to run. It makes everyone miserable even if they don't use the iPhone.
How does apple’s decisions affect non iOS users?
Most businesses must have mobile apps of some kind, and must support the two biggest options, iPhone and Android. So even if you don't own an iPhone, as a business owner there's a good chance you must make an iPhone app.
Also, the entire web has to maintain Safari compatibility because iOS devices can only browse via Safari's engine. Ironically, this is the only thing protecting us from a complete Chrome monopoly... so I'm kinda in favor of it, but it's a problem we need to address as well.
Re: EU says Apple’s App Store breaks competition rules after Spotify complaint
#130Unpopular opinion: This was a no brainer. Apple wanted 30% (or was it less for subscriptions?) on any business that used apps, no matter if they used apple infrastructure or not. Just think about it: one company is in practice entitled to 30% of what any other business makes (in any industry)!! Also, I think apple brought this to themselves by picking a fight with Spotify (on Watch support).
The App Store, iOS and Apple's hardware are all Apple's infrastructure.