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Wi-Fi packet capturing on M1 Macs is broken

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Re: Wi-Fi packet capturing on M1 Macs is broken

#131

Post by grishka »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #114
roody15 wrote: post #61

Leopard = meh Snow Leopard = Awesome Lion = meh Yosemite = ok Sierra = good High Sierra = Awesome Mojave = meh Catalina = meh Big Sur = meh (snow leopard and high sierra were the best IMO) Mac Admin for 15 years

The Snow Leopard days of the Mac made me want one. Everything since then has been a disappointment. I miss the big little details like the Welcome intros and beautiful usage of CoreAnimation. Now it seems like nothing uses it, and macOS seems far far less magical than ever. I could never see Apple coming up with the original Time Machine design anymore.

Honestly, it's easy to hate on Apple, but you start to appreciate macOS once you have to use Windows or Linux for anything serious. Yes, there is no good desktop OS, but macOS sucks the least, and by far.

Re: Wi-Fi packet capturing on M1 Macs is broken

#132

Post by faitswulff »

Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #95
S_A_P wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would think that with each release being so much worse than previous versions that eventually OSX would quit booting up and become nothing more than a proof of concept. So much hyperbole in this thread. A solid subset of users declares that the sky is falling and this is the end for Apple. Rinse and repeat with each iteration. I am not saying there haven’t been missteps, but it ain’t all bad. My personal experien…

Does Big Sur let you loopback audio out yet, or are third-party extensions still required? Do Soundflower & BlackHole even work on M1? The fact there hasn't been native loopback for so long is mind-boggling. I'm a Mac user and use BlackHole. I've lost count of the number of times I've been on a call and someone with a Mac has gone to share screen and been confused as to why their audio isn't being shared. COVID/WFH h…

Counterpoint: I don’t know or care what that feature is and I’ve never encountered anyone complaining about it.

Re: Wi-Fi packet capturing on M1 Macs is broken

#133

Post by aulin »

imwillofficial wrote: post #58
Ericson2314 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As Linux laptop user, I'm bemused when the competition gets worse. Maybe Linux on Apple Silicon will be the best of both worlds in a few years --- I think the dedicated porting effort will more than succeed and will get something more polished than Linux on Intel macs ever was.

Linux on desktop users shouldn’t be bemused until Linux desktop experience isn’t a pile of UX trash. Linux on the desktop is still so frustrating, ugly, and only marginally more useful over a Mac for extremely specific use cases, that I would rather use Windows + WSL2.

Whenever I read these comments I really wonder what do you do with your desktop environment. I spend most of the time inside an app, mostly the browser, the terminal or the editor. As long as the desktop env doesn't get in the way it's good. The only annoyance I experience when I switch back and forth from GNOME to MacOS is really the different keyboard shortcuts and that I have to install an additional tool (Rectangle) to get basic window tiling on mac. I can even use Windows these days, as long as WSL is installed

Re: Wi-Fi packet capturing on M1 Macs is broken

#134

Post by coldtea »

roody15 wrote: post #61

Leopard = meh Snow Leopard = Awesome Lion = meh Yosemite = ok Sierra = good High Sierra = Awesome Mojave = meh Catalina = meh Big Sur = meh (snow leopard and high sierra were the best IMO) Mac Admin for 15 years

I use Macs for programming, music (DAW), and video (NLE), and don't see to have all these big problems people have. Several Macs over the years. And those are quite demanding applications (for programming, resource wise, I didn't use Docker until recently, but did use Vagrant, Vmware, and virtuabox for ages).

My major gripes are swallen batteries (2 times in 20 years), and the crappy 2015-2019 keyboards (plus, whoever idiot designed the usb-at-the-bottom mouse).

But as far as the OS is concerned there are some bugs I see here and there, but I don't see the big fuss. I don't have peripherals disconeccting at random, crashes, data loss, and so on.

I've had way worse bugs and issues on Linux and Linux software over the years (which I also use since 1997), and even used as my main pro desktop for years (1999-2003, Debian) in far more optimistic times.

One key differentiator might be that I don't install any kind of crap (I have a no-haxies policy for example, and spare for Little Snitch, I avoided kexts too. A vendor has some special e.g. keyboard driver? Fuck it, I'll use one keyboard with class compliant drivers), but I do install a lot of apps still.

Another might be that I usually re-install fresh every 2 years or so (I like to get rid of accumulated junk, including personal documents and downloaded files, and install what I really need to use at the current, sort of like spring-cleaning).

Re: Wi-Fi packet capturing on M1 Macs is broken

#135

Post by coldtea »

AlexandrB wrote: post #10
faitswulff wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to wonder if all issues with Apple's software quality are due to Apple redirecting resources to gracefully handling the Apple silicon transfer.

macOS quality has been declining for years. It can't all be due to the M1 transition.

Any real data, except of anecdotal "had this or that problem"?

It seems to me macOS quality has been fine for years.

And I've used it since 10.2.

Re: Wi-Fi packet capturing on M1 Macs is broken

#136

Post by deergomoo »

tolmasky wrote: post #15
stock_toaster wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Early versions of Catalina were also not great. (Heck, early versions of any major macos release tend to be relatively buggy!) I think people tend to forget things like that, and only remember the later releases of an OS since that is the version they are likely switching off of it to the newer one. I personally have found big sir no more buggy than most releases. Better than some[1], worse than others. About middlin…

Later versions of Catalina remain not great. The problem is that each version of macOS compounds onto the next, since there's no time for the "tock" after the "tick" anymore. Sure, catastrophic bugs may get fixed, but some stuff just seems to degrade forever (I can't remember the last time drag and drop worked like I expected to... even on Apple apps). The OS usually launches around November, and By WWDC, we're alrea…

I really, really wish they'd ditch the yearly cycle for macOS. It's a mature operating system—older now than classic Mac OS was when OS X launched. It's not missing huge chunks of functionality like iOS, nor is it in lockstep with yearly hardware like the iPhone.

At this point all I do with my Mac is work. I would much rather it be rock solid and reliable than be crammed with new features and change for the sake of change every year. Most of the features that get added for iOS parity/compatibility could probably be delivered in point updates anyway.

Re: Wi-Fi packet capturing on M1 Macs is broken

#137

Post by coldtea »

Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #95
S_A_P wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would think that with each release being so much worse than previous versions that eventually OSX would quit booting up and become nothing more than a proof of concept. So much hyperbole in this thread. A solid subset of users declares that the sky is falling and this is the end for Apple. Rinse and repeat with each iteration. I am not saying there haven’t been missteps, but it ain’t all bad. My personal experien…

Does Big Sur let you loopback audio out yet, or are third-party extensions still required? Do Soundflower & BlackHole even work on M1? The fact there hasn't been native loopback for so long is mind-boggling. I'm a Mac user and use BlackHole. I've lost count of the number of times I've been on a call and someone with a Mac has gone to share screen and been confused as to why their audio isn't being shared. COVID/WFH h…

>Does Big Sur let you loopback audio out yet, or are third-party extensions still required? Do Soundflower & BlackHole even work on M1?

How is that relevant to a discussion about worsening software quality? OS X never had native loopback.

Re: Wi-Fi packet capturing on M1 Macs is broken

#138

Post by coldtea »

faitswulff wrote: post #132
Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Big Sur let you loopback audio out yet, or are third-party extensions still required? Do Soundflower & BlackHole even work on M1? The fact there hasn't been native loopback for so long is mind-boggling. I'm a Mac user and use BlackHole. I've lost count of the number of times I've been on a call and someone with a Mac has gone to share screen and been confused as to why their audio isn't being shared. COVID/WFH h…

Counterpoint: I don’t know or care what that feature is and I’ve never encountered anyone complaining about it.

It's basically sending your system audio to an audio channel (e.g. to an app). You could e.g. route a Skype call audio to record it.

Handy when you need it, not exactly a metric for OS quality to offer one.

Re: Wi-Fi packet capturing on M1 Macs is broken

#139

Post by paulintrognon »

grishka wrote: post #131
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Snow Leopard days of the Mac made me want one. Everything since then has been a disappointment. I miss the big little details like the Welcome intros and beautiful usage of CoreAnimation. Now it seems like nothing uses it, and macOS seems far far less magical than ever. I could never see Apple coming up with the original Time Machine design anymore.

Honestly, it's easy to hate on Apple, but you start to appreciate macOS once you have to use Windows or Linux for anything serious. Yes, there is no good desktop OS, but macOS sucks the least, and by far.

I think that is just your opinion, and not objective truth. I am a happy debian user, currently forced to use macOS at my current company, and can't say I have a great time developping on a mac. As a web developper, Linux is great: native docker, native linux terminal experience...

I however think this is a personnal opinoin, and I won't argue that Linux is better that macOS. If I has been a macOS user from the start I would have maybe been equally unhappy to be forced to use Linux.

What i'm trying to say is, we are all different people with different tastes and priorities, and I don't think we can objectivly say that one OS is better (or "sucks the least").

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