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Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

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Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#411

Post by sizzle »

mumblemumble wrote: post #152
willcipriano wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like they updated the package: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Great-Value-Plant-Based-Mozzarell... The one I had that plant based logo was a quarter of the size and it did not have leaves like that on the front. Also that white plant based text was a few shades lighter than the background (that was previously sky blue) making it hard to read. Admittedly I should've seen the "style" part and looked further, also I s…

Ha. Even the current packaging isn't that hot. Leave it to Wal-Mart to screw that up. I bet they were so focused on sticking to the "Great Value" graphic design manual that they ended up deciding that clearly conveying all the critical information on the label would have ruined their branding consistency. For what it's worth, I can tell just by the ingredients label that that stuff is gross. Potato starch, coconut oi…

What are “natural” flavors derived from?

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#412

Post by sizzle »

tartoran wrote: post #37
jjcon wrote: post #2

> Vegan Cheese Is Ready to Compete With Dairy. Is the World Ready to Eat It? I’m vegetarian and my partner is vegan - I’ve tried every vegan cheese on the shelf. The answer is no because it’s not even close to ready. It might pass an initial taste test where you say, that’s not so bad, but then you pick up on all the things it’s missing. Sometimes the aftertaste is terrible, sometimes the texture or versatility. Mayb…

> The answer is no, it’s not even close to ready. It might pass an initial taste test where you say, that’s not so bad, but then you pick up on all the things it’s missing. I tried these and agree. My wife is vegetarian and I started to rarely eat meat but cheeses are still a staple in our house. However, vegetarian burgers are ready for prime time. They are my new thing, if you didn't tell I'm eating vegetarian burg…

Impossible meat patty is ridiculously good. I wish I had this stuff growing up!

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#413

Post by cercatrova »

adt2bt wrote: post #378
cheese_goddess wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're asking me whether I think two big-name vegans who make movies and give TED talks about veganism are pretend-vegans? For pushing pretend-animal products? Yes! Yes they are! It's like asking me if the Pope is a pretend-Christian for pushing pretend-faith and pretend-salvation if you just do what he says. Sure he is! You want to be like saint in the world and reduce harm? Then don't go baptising nut mush as "chee…

You’re attempting to redefine ‘pure’ veganism as consuming no animal nor animal-like products whatsoever. I can see where a word for that might exist, but what is commonly considered ‘vegan’ is not your definition.

> ‘pure’ veganism as consuming no animal nor animal-like products whatsoever

Yes? This is what veganism is, is it not? Vegans don't eat animal products at all.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#414

Post by spfzero »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #347
eatbitseveryday wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> stop thinking of certain vegan cheeses as substitutes for animal cheeses Why do we even begin with naming vegan food products after the items they are meant to represent? "Cheese" is made from milk. "Vegan cheese" as a label is specifically targeted at being "like milk cheese" and thus intends to replicate it. If you want > Why can't it just be treated as a food in itself? we should entirely dispense with imitating…

We don't need to invent new anything. So many great vegan dishes have existed for centuries and survived against meat on their own merits. Proper falafel with tabouleh and tahini is amazing. Chana or brinjal masala are a treat. Pasta with a simple 4 ingredient Napoli is the ultimate comfort food. Don't even get me started on dosa. Hell, fucking bread dipped in olive oil is good. Yet, for God knows what reason, whenev…

Why would you think Paleo food choices aren't appreciated by people who derive a massive amount of pleasure from food? Paleo/Primal foods are the most satisfying, tastey and healthy foods. The feelings around food are evolutionarily rooted. We are always going to be most satisfied by the foods that are best for us, it's by design.

There is an epidemiological experiment that has been going on for over a million years. It resulted in a population of 8 billion homo sapiens. That is not actually good for the Earth, but if you want to know what to eat, to maximize your health as an individual, look that way.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#415

Post by adt2bt »

cercatrova wrote: post #413
adt2bt wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re attempting to redefine ‘pure’ veganism as consuming no animal nor animal-like products whatsoever. I can see where a word for that might exist, but what is commonly considered ‘vegan’ is not your definition.

> ‘pure’ veganism as consuming no animal nor animal-like products whatsoever Yes? This is what veganism is, is it not? Vegans don't eat animal products at all.

They can eat animal-like products though, such as Impossible burgers or nut cheese.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#416

Post by hjek »

cheese_goddess wrote: post #337
hjek wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For me, anyone who eats pretend-meat or pretend-dairy is a pretend-vegan. I love that you can get all the taste without the violence and suffering. Eating is not always a single-person activity, so having vegan substitutes for meat and cheese is great when eating together with non-vegans who may be wary of falafels. There are very few vegans who are vegans because of taste. Many are worried about the environmental…

You're asking me whether I think two big-name vegans who make movies and give TED talks about veganism are pretend-vegans? For pushing pretend-animal products? Yes! Yes they are! It's like asking me if the Pope is a pretend-Christian for pushing pretend-faith and pretend-salvation if you just do what he says. Sure he is! You want to be like saint in the world and reduce harm? Then don't go baptising nut mush as "chee…

> pretend-vegans [...] For pushing pretend-animal products?

I would agree that people who endorse pretend-vegan products are pretend-vegans. There are many products labelled as "veggie" that still contain egg, such as Quorn.

But your logic fails by assuming pretend-meat = pretend-vegan. You don't kill anyone by playing Doom, just like you don't eat anyone when eating vegan nuggets.

(Yes, there's an argument that violent games can lead to real-life violence, but are you really claiming that vegan meat-substitutes can cause harm by in some cases leading people to eat meat?)

> You want to be like saint [...] Then don't go baptising [...] then come to preach to me about mine.

I find it interesting how religious terms are used as an insult towards vegans. It's a very common and highly irrational defense-mechanism many carnists use when experiencing cognitive dissonance because of all the violence they're willingly and knowingly contributing to while also thinking of themselves as good people.

> Stop advertising meat and dairy with your actions, contrary to your words. Stick to your principles and then come to preach to me about mine.

The paradox here is this: The more you stick to your principles as a vegan, the more upset non-vegans can get, while simultaneously demanding that you do stick to your principles, because otherwise you're a hypocrite. I have heard these carnist proverbs before, and unfortunately they defy logic.

For instance, regarding sticking to principles, I choose to not sit at a table where animals are eaten, even if there's also vegan food available. I do this to stop endorsing meat, which is what you're demanding, but no doubt such a stance would upset you as well.

It's challenging to examine one's own beliefs. I've eaten too many animals myself. I hope you have a good day.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#417

Post by TomatoDash »

anigbrowl wrote: post #139
TomatoDash wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abuse is only one among several other arguments presented for ethical vegetarianism. For example see https://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/bts/vol19/iss1/1/

But I'm not questioning ethical vegetarianism, I'm talking about veganism's opposition to any kind of dairy farming over and above that.

Oh I see. The linked paper uses vegetarianism in a wider sense that covers that too.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#418

Post by TomatoDash »

incrudible wrote: post #134
TomatoDash wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> fake meak was proven to be non-healhtly Here [0] is a series of nine short videos (with text transcripts and links to all scientific sources) on plant-based meat substitutes' health and environmental impact. The reported findings go against your claim. [0] https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-environmental-impacts-o...

Nutritionfacts is ideologically driven[1], advocating a plant-based diet. What exactly did you expect? Actual "nutrition facts" are few and far between. I could selectively cite all kinds of studies that go for or against veganism. They're all flawed in some way, so people can just dismiss what they don't want to hear. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Greger

They advocate a whole-foods plant-based diet. Meats/cheeses made out of plants aren't whole foods though. Generally we have to think critically and scrutinize sources cited and if they back up claims made. Do you have some such specific objection in this case?

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#419

Post by tpoacher »

wumpus wrote: post #403
tpoacher wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes you're right that was a bad example. My bad choice of specific example shouldn't dismiss the more general point though.

If you want to pick another bad example, consider "rice milk" in Asia. Not a dairy product.

Indeed. So introducing a dairy beverage called rice milk would cause unnecessary confusion. Yes?

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#420

Post by tpoacher »

wumpus wrote: post #402
mywittyname wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Food is very highly regulated. And for good reason. It seems totally feasible to require a new product to have a new name, even if it's kind of like an existing product. Think: ice cream. Ice cream is a regulated product with a formal legal definition. Places making cheaper ice cream substitutes were forced to come up with names to distinguish their products: soft serve, Frosty, FroYo, etc. It takes the consumer all…

"new product", one that's hundreds of years old. Check out medieval and Renaissance recipes for Fridays and Lent.

Don't go there. E.g. Olive oil is considered an animal product for Lent purposes because it used to be carried in flasks made from animal hide. And whether to use almond milk ot not depends on permission from your priest, if they think you are simply mimicking the forbidden stuff it "imitates", and thus still worth avoiding.

This has little to do with the stop confusing the names of things argument.

I concede that almond milk was a bad example, but if anything that strengthens the point.

I bet even back then people had the same discussion in fact :p

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