really wanted to post this one again eh
is this an april fool's joke?
Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves
251–260 of 492 posts
Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves
#252Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't mind people calling something "vegan cheese" or "vegan milk" or "milk alternative" etc. But I do mind people calling it "cheese" or "milk" intentionally when it's a vegan alternative, revelling in the confusion, just to give the impression that they're interchangeable and it's really no big deal if you get the vegan version instead. Like, wtf is almond milk? When I was a kid, almond milk was super tasty, and…
> What's wrong with calling the vegan almond milk "almond-based milk alternative" if it's not actual milk? Because that would be crippling for an advertising perspective. It sounds like something out of a satirical sci-fi dystopian environment. The goal is to encourage people to choose it as an alternative to dairy milk, not to use the most precise label.
Food is very highly regulated. And for good reason.
It seems totally feasible to require a new product to have a new name, even if it's kind of like an existing product. Think: ice cream. Ice cream is a regulated product with a formal legal definition. Places making cheaper ice cream substitutes were forced to come up with names to distinguish their products: soft serve, Frosty, FroYo, etc.
It takes the consumer all of 10 seconds to get the gist.
Everyone should be okay with truth in food. Especially vegan, who certainly would NOT be okay with products that mislead them into believing a product is vegan when it is not.
Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves
#253Earlier quoted context omitted.
So my wife and I are vegetarian and I love certain vegan cheese, the naturally cultured ones where you essentially have a plant product that is cultured with cheese bacteria. My experience with this stuff is similar to a lot of things in vegetarian diet, which is that the problems come about when you start trying to create imitations of animal products. I do not want to suggest that people "just don't like vegan chee…
I tend to agree with this. I'm not a vegetarian, but if I were, I'd wouldn't eat imitation animal products anymore than I'd drink non-alcoholic beer. I'm happy to eat vegetarian food. It stands on its own as delicious. One of the best "burgers" I've ever had was made with black beans and wasn't trying to imitate meat. (It was at The Vortex in Atlanta years ago.) Imitation products that I've tried have always just lef…
We drink a lot of non alcoholic beer. I want something more exiting than water even on work day lunches and I don’t like sweet drinks and I’m trying to reduce my caffeine intake. Not that much left to choose from then.
Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves
#254Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't mind people calling something "vegan cheese" or "vegan milk" or "milk alternative" etc. But I do mind people calling it "cheese" or "milk" intentionally when it's a vegan alternative, revelling in the confusion, just to give the impression that they're interchangeable and it's really no big deal if you get the vegan version instead. Like, wtf is almond milk? When I was a kid, almond milk was super tasty, and…
> What's wrong with calling the vegan almond milk "almond-based milk alternative" if it's not actual milk? Because that would be crippling for an advertising perspective. It sounds like something out of a satirical sci-fi dystopian environment. The goal is to encourage people to choose it as an alternative to dairy milk, not to use the most precise label.
Trader Joe's (and maybe others) uses the word "beverage" to describe a lot of its milk alternatives.
Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves
#255Only time I had some was in vegan quesadillas in San jose. The cooking process caused some material change and the more astringent, chemical qualities came to the fore.
I've seen molten plastic with more cheese like qualities.
It was a 3/10 experience. I would try again, but there would have to be improvement.
Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves
#256Earlier quoted context omitted.
Which is why it's basically the only exception. No other non-milks are allowed that. Good
But if consumers understand that coconut milk doesn't come from a cow, surely they can understand soy milk doesn't. Milk is already used for non animal milks as coconut shows, so I don't see this doing anything pro-consumer.
A historical exception isn't an acceptable excuse to muddy the otherwise precisely defined definition further. But that's just my opinion. I'd even wager that coconut liquid may lose its privilege in the near future. Good
Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves
#257>> A coagulant is typically added to turn the milk proteins into solid curds — in many cheeses, that coagulant is an enzyme called rennet, which is traditionally taken from an unweaned calf’s stomach lining, although vegetarian rennet, derived from molds or plants, is used in some cases.
"Traditionally" rennet was taken from an unweaned milk animal's stomach (not just a calf's stomach. Some people make most of their cheese from ewe's and goat's milk).
Fast-forward a couple thousand years and in modern times, most rennet in commercial cheeses is the product of fermentation by cute little bacteria cultured in cute little bacteria incubators:
... Because of the above imperfections of microbial and animal rennets, many producers sought other replacements of rennet. With genetic engineering it became possible to isolate rennet genes from animals and introduce them into certain bacteria, fungi, or yeasts to make them produce recombinant chymosin during fermentation. The genetically modified microorganism is killed after fermentation and chymosin isolated from the fermentation broth, so that the fermentation-produced chymosin (FPC) used by cheese producers does not contain a GMO or any GMO DNA. FPC is identical to chymosin made by an animal, but is produced in a more efficient way. FPC products have been on the market since 1990 and, because the quantity needed per unit of milk can be standardized, are commercially viable alternatives to crude animal or plant rennets, as well as generally preferred to them in industrial production.[12] ...
Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rennet#Fermentation-produced_c...
But, somehow, everytime I read an article about vegan cheese it seems to lead with the outdated information that rennet is, like, normally, made with the stomach lininig of unweaned calves.
Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves
#258Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Sometimes the aftertaste is terrible, sometimes the texture or versatility. These are both true of dairy cheeses too.
I think what they're saying is that, unlike real cheese, there's always something wrong with the taste of dairy-free cheese. FWIW my experience has been the same.
What I'm saying is there's always something wrong with the taste of dairy cheese. Although, it's subtle, and you get used to it if you eat it enough.
Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves
#259A lot of the time I feel like health food is really just a way for manufacturers to cheap out and then sell something at a premium. Margarine is vegan, but it was always just marketed as "cheap". Discerning or well-to-do consumers would just pass it up. Now, people will put up with things that are very cheap to make, taste horrible, and are very expensive to buy. That creates a problem: the food is becoming about the…
A lot of "health food" is a scam, and isn't even healthy. It's actually kind of absurd how if you look at even the junk food aisle, you'll see tons of advertisements for "all-natural", "organic", "30% less sugar", "with vitamin B".
The vegan cheese isn't an exception: some of them are actually pretty good, but most are really processed with a lot of added oil. Although most vegans do seem to realize and accept this, because it still has the benefit of being vegan.
If you want real "healthy" food, get whole foods: vegetables, meats (or good vegan meats, look for protein / calories ratio), fish, yogurt, beans. Fruits and even grains are ok, as are nuts and nut butters - just watch your portions. Even a bit of cheese or olive oil is good because they actually have nutrients. Ironically, all of these are usually packaged plain and don't mention "low-carb" or "good source of vitamin B12".
Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves
#260Earlier quoted context omitted.
> stop thinking of certain vegan cheeses as substitutes for animal cheeses Why do we even begin with naming vegan food products after the items they are meant to represent? "Cheese" is made from milk. "Vegan cheese" as a label is specifically targeted at being "like milk cheese" and thus intends to replicate it. If you want > Why can't it just be treated as a food in itself? we should entirely dispense with imitating…
I don't mind people calling something "vegan cheese" or "vegan milk" or "milk alternative" etc. But I do mind people calling it "cheese" or "milk" intentionally when it's a vegan alternative, revelling in the confusion, just to give the impression that they're interchangeable and it's really no big deal if you get the vegan version instead. Like, wtf is almond milk? When I was a kid, almond milk was super tasty, and…
I guess we should always be specifying "Cow's" milk.