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Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

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Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#201

Post by ben_w »

captainredbeard wrote: post #160
ccmonnett wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your ability to eat as much food as you desire is synonymous with living in a first world country. The ability murder as many animals as you want is not the desired state I look for when thinking about the world in which my child to grow up. A future in which that is synonymous with status is backwards - to me.

Well, you can choose to not contribute to animal-based agriculture. Similarly, I do not want mine to grow up in a world with forced veganism. Who wins in this conflict? I would say you keep your morals in your court for such contentious issues, to do otherwise is maliciously aggressive.

I don’t know if cows can suffer like humans can or not, so I am content to not get in your way.

That said, I invite you to consider what you would and would not allow others to do given a hypothetical: if you genuinely believed that cows were just as capable of suffering as humans — especially given that cows lactate only after giving birth, and dairy cows live only for so long as their milk is worth more than the cost of keeping them alive.

Most functioning adults can keep quiet about a simple preference (for Star Trek when around Star Wars fans, or whatever) but morals don’t work the same.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#202

Post by subungual »

anigbrowl wrote: post #66
autarch wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's something unexpected about this aspect of veganism, which is often embraced by those wanting to lead a healthier lifestyle ... I'm not sure what you base this statement on. There are many people whose initial motivations for going vegan were ethical, either to avoid funding animal abuse, environmental degradation, or both. That was why I went vegan 23.5 years ago, and why I'm still vegan. I eat mock meat an…

I totally get ethical vegetarianism, and appreciate that much animal abuse can occur within the dairy industry, but I don't think that's inherent. Of course, believing that and shopping ethically requires a great deal more selectivity and research (and willingness to pay more for food whose provenance can be trusted). Not to pick a fight, but I don't get the basic argument that 'all animal husbandry = unnatural explo…

I've not really encountered the idea that it's unnatural exploitation, to be honest, and I completely agree with your point there. The core ethical argument that I generally see presented for veganism is that once you've advanced past the point of requiring animal products to live a healthy life, consuming them becomes entirely a matter of convenience, taste, and preference. The argument follows, then, that it may not be ethical to subject animals to the realities of modern husbandry simply on account of these reasons.

The question of whether abuse is inherent is largely academic at this point. The fact of the matter is that almost all of the animal products we consume are the result of optimized industrial processes that result in shortened, low-quality lives for those put through them. Whether an animal could, under the right circumstances, be humanely raised for resource extraction or slaughter doesn't really apply in modern consumption.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#203

Post by tpoacher »

Djvacto wrote: post #185
tpoacher wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mind people calling something "vegan cheese" or "vegan milk" or "milk alternative" etc. But I do mind people calling it "cheese" or "milk" intentionally when it's a vegan alternative, revelling in the confusion, just to give the impression that they're interchangeable and it's really no big deal if you get the vegan version instead. Like, wtf is almond milk? When I was a kid, almond milk was super tasty, and…

I'm curious, do you have a link or image of what that "almond milk" you used to have was? Obviously searching for the various possible terms gives results mostly from recent times, about the vegan almond milk.

Well, admittedly, I'm thinking in my native language, which is Greek, and where "almond milk" was basically milk mixed in with "Soumada" [1]. Whereas if you say "almond milk" now even in greek, it'll probably refer to the vegan stuff, and you'll have to literally say "milk with the taste of almond" for the other one.

Soumada is very tasty, a bit like amaretto but without the alcohol. I haven't had it in years ...

A similar and very popular drink along similar lines is "rose milk", which is stirring up some rose sherbet in milk.

It was a popular way of getting kids to drink milk back in my day (slightly less popular these days).

But I admit, if a vegan "rose milk" comes out as some milky alternative made of rose petals and I have to repurpose "rose milk" as well, I'm going to be quite upset :p

[1] https://www.mycretangoods.com/article/16856/Soumada-traditio...

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#204

Post by bondant »

Most of the vegan "cheese" I tasted were honestly quite bad, they seemed to be plastic imitations of standard milk cheese. But once I found one named Cicioni [1], and it was absolutely awesome! But sadly I have a hard time finding it in shops. :(

[1] https://www.casadelfermentino.com/en/brand/cicioni/

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#205

Post by RacfeelBudkind »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #135
werdnapk wrote: post #41

There has been countless times when I've reached for some cheese on the shelf and then finally noticed the words "cheese product" on the packaging and realize that I didn't actually grab what I intended to... so I put it back and look for one with the correct labeling. So perhaps deceptive marketing/packaging is how it's gaining in sales?

"Cheese product" doesn’t necessary mean vegan. It could be that it contains cow milk, just not to an extent required to legally be sold as "cheese" according to the given country’s legislation.

In fact, in the US at least, "Cheese product" nessesarily means it isn't vegan.

Vegan cheese products also tend to be pretty upfront about not actually being cheese too, because they're marketing to people who don't want cheese.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#206

Post by AlgorithmicTime »

DangitBobby wrote: post #193
tpoacher wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mind people calling something "vegan cheese" or "vegan milk" or "milk alternative" etc. But I do mind people calling it "cheese" or "milk" intentionally when it's a vegan alternative, revelling in the confusion, just to give the impression that they're interchangeable and it's really no big deal if you get the vegan version instead. Like, wtf is almond milk? When I was a kid, almond milk was super tasty, and…

> What's wrong with calling the vegan almond milk "almond-based milk alternative" if it's not actual milk? Because that would be crippling for an advertising perspective. It sounds like something out of a satirical sci-fi dystopian environment. The goal is to encourage people to choose it as an alternative to dairy milk, not to use the most precise label.

Well, it is something from a dystopia. So... yeah.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#207

Post by RacfeelBudkind »

endisneigh wrote: post #6

Leaving aside for a moment the morality of eating meat and dairy - is there actually any (health) benefit to the heavily (and I mean heavily ) processed dairy alternatives compared to just eating regular cheese?

Well, there's no cholesterol at least.

Edit: Also keep in mind that cheese is a processed food too. I think it's somewhat subjective whether oil mixed with starch and yeast is more processed than milk coagulated with an enzyme (rennet, usually from mold), strained, and fermented. Processed food isn't inherently unhealthy, but both cheese and vegan cheese definitely are.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#208

Post by fader »

js2 wrote: post #81
derbOac wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So my wife and I are vegetarian and I love certain vegan cheese, the naturally cultured ones where you essentially have a plant product that is cultured with cheese bacteria. My experience with this stuff is similar to a lot of things in vegetarian diet, which is that the problems come about when you start trying to create imitations of animal products. I do not want to suggest that people "just don't like vegan chee…

I tend to agree with this. I'm not a vegetarian, but if I were, I'd wouldn't eat imitation animal products anymore than I'd drink non-alcoholic beer. I'm happy to eat vegetarian food. It stands on its own as delicious. One of the best "burgers" I've ever had was made with black beans and wasn't trying to imitate meat. (It was at The Vortex in Atlanta years ago.) Imitation products that I've tried have always just lef…

I hear this sort of thing a lot but don't quite understand it.

I've been a vegetarian for eight years, but I eat meat substitute products. I have ethical issues with eating meat and I feel considerably better physically when I don't eat meat, but that doesn't mean that meat doesn't taste good.

I'm quite happy to be able to pop some Quorn mycoprotein into a casserole and eat comfort foods of my childhood without having to kill an animal to do it.

(I have to agree about Tofurky though. I'll generally go hungry voluntarily if that's the vegetarian option.)

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#209

Post by hombre_fatal »

whynotkeithberg wrote: post #176
xdennis wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> murder Please show me the law.

Yeah veganism is 100% a first world privilege.

Not at all. I live next to a tiny shop in Mexico that sells fruits, vegetables, and some extras like oatmeal and beans and olive oil. I eat healthier (according to research reviewed by NutritionFacts.org) and more cheaply than anyone I know once I decided to limit my diet to only the things they have, incidentally vegan.

I spend almost nothing on food in this shop. Same for all the poor Mexicans who live in the area.

It’s quite obvious that ubiquitous access to cheap animal products is a first world thing.

Re: Vegan cheese has quietly but steadily infiltrated mainstream supermarket shelves

#210

Post by octopoc »

RacfeelBudkind wrote: post #199
jjcon wrote: post #2

> Vegan Cheese Is Ready to Compete With Dairy. Is the World Ready to Eat It? I’m vegetarian and my partner is vegan - I’ve tried every vegan cheese on the shelf. The answer is no because it’s not even close to ready. It might pass an initial taste test where you say, that’s not so bad, but then you pick up on all the things it’s missing. Sometimes the aftertaste is terrible, sometimes the texture or versatility. Mayb…

> Sometimes the aftertaste is terrible, sometimes the texture or versatility. These are both true of dairy cheeses too.

I think what they're saying is that, unlike real cheese, there's always something wrong with the taste of dairy-free cheese. FWIW my experience has been the same.
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