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New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

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Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#161

Post by pmyteh »

brippalcharrid wrote: post #53
wpietri wrote: post #13

Funny that they don't mention what "certain, commonplace views" people "stay silent" about. That might put a different spin on things. As I mentioned [1] about the Basecamp debacle, you can't get full "viewpoint diversity" and full "identity diversity" because some viewpoints are hostile to some identities. Given our society's long history of those viewpoints being endemic, and given the slow movement away from ident…

> Funny that they don't mention what "certain, commonplace views" people "stay silent" about. That might put a different spin on things. The article actually mentions at least two examples, so I don't think there's as much room for spin with this as you might think. One is Conservative voters, who have been vilified by the hard left since the 1970s, not least because of a sense of betrayal with the erosion of parts o…

For what it's worth, the 'shy Tory' effect isn't really a thing, at least in British opinion polling. Maybe in the 1992 General Election, when it was coined, not since. Polling errors go both ways, most polling misses turn out to be a result of turnout modeling problems or (occasionally) unrepresentative samples, and voters have no problem at all telling pollsters they're going to vote for the Tories, UKIP, or anyone else.

Take the present prime minister. I don't think it's particularly controversial to say that he's repeatedly proven himself to be a fairly brazen liar. Voters don't actually like liars. They do, nevertheless, like Johnson (and quite a bit more than they like Starmer). And they're not shy about saying so.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#162

Post by yerwhat01010 »

visarga wrote: post #77
treeman79 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Had to leave one job already. Bashing white people on company meetings while going on about wonderfully diverse they were. Their disdain in having to hire a white guy was constant. Product was falling apart since they had nothing but juniors of the correct races sexes and orientations.

> Bashing white people on company meetings Isn't that open racism? Or is it ok because it's compensating for historical racism?

> Isn't that open racism?

Not by their new definition of the word. Which is exactly why they've redefined the word.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#163

Post by yerwhat01010 »

zorpner wrote: post #95
ineptech wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The presumption that the world can be divided in to "progressive activists" and "racists" probably has a lot to do with the reason people don't want to express diverse political opinions at work.

You can't be neutral on a moving train. If you're not fighting against it, you're for it.

So I take it you support the Uighur genocide in China, the Maduro regime in Venezuela, the current covid crisis in India, the humanitarian crisis in Yemen, and the persecution of the Rohingya in Myanmar? Or are you doing something to actively fight against them?

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#164

Post by foxrider »

crummy wrote: post #150
phroobster wrote: post #96

I am so tired of constantly hearing about politics at my workplace. Politics have already made their way into the tv shows, music, video games, and online forums that I enjoy. At least let me disconnect from that outrage-fuel at work. It also affects team cohesion. I can easily collaborate with just about anyone when I don’t know their political beliefs. As soon as I find out someone holds opposing views on a topic I…

Were your TV shows, video games, etc really lacking in politics before? Or was it just a different kind of politics? (Honest question.)

I think it boils down to lacking in writing. I used to watch shows that had a lot of political statements made through their worldbuilding and character interactions. These were good stories because to find a political message there you had to think about it and draw parallels yourself. More modern shows tent to just outright mention current political movements IRL or just straight up lecture people by characters doing speeches. It's very distracting because it clearly breaks away from the flow of the show. Even if the lecture is something I 100% on board with it may feel even worse because it feels like the show insults my intelligence.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#165

Post by arka2147483647 »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #152
efaref wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly the problem. "I do not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it" has been replaced with "freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences". The latter is, of course, utter nonsense. Repercussions or retaliation for expressing wrongthink is the literal definition of a place that does not have freedom of speech.

No, the expectation of being able to say anything and not be responsible for it, is what's wrong. Say what you want, but be prepared to stand by it and take responsibility for it, in a court of law if necessary. Free speech is a right, and thus it requires the person exercising that right to understand that it does not absolve them from being held responsible for what they say or express. Just like the 2nd amendment…

Above I said:

> Meaning that, Yes, you do have the right of free speach, but No, you should not be saying the wrong things.

I would argue, that you do disagree with what I said.

You are just providing reasons why it is acceptable for why you should not be saying the wrong things.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#166

Post by sgift »

systemvoltage wrote: post #125
phroobster wrote: post #96

I am so tired of constantly hearing about politics at my workplace. Politics have already made their way into the tv shows, music, video games, and online forums that I enjoy. At least let me disconnect from that outrage-fuel at work. It also affects team cohesion. I can easily collaborate with just about anyone when I don’t know their political beliefs. As soon as I find out someone holds opposing views on a topic I…

Agree and resonate with my personal observation. I've personally completely and utterly stopped following politics. I do follow local elections and things that affect me and my neighborhood (HOA, municipality decisions, etc.). What we're seeing is an emergence of anti-political movement that is directly in response to the echo-chambered, uncivilized and nauseating social media that's profited from this rage. Twitter…

> I predict that the anti-political movement is going to take off and pick up steam in the intellectual circles.

Only in anti-intellectual circles could an anti-political movement take off. Anyone with even a shred of intellect understands how important politics is for everyday life and that being anti-political means "I will have to accept what others decide for me without any recourse."

Politics may be an uncomfortable topic, but it's still a very important one.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#167

Post by [deleted] »

visarga wrote: post #78
whoknowswhat11 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

racism = judging people / taking actions based on race. Reality in many workplaces is that the racists making decisions based on race are on the left these days - not the right. When you say exclude folks who practice racism you need to be very careful. I've no problem with affirmative action, but running around saying folks making judgements based on race should be excluded from the workplace will do a LOT of harm t…

Fixed that for you: > racism = judging people / taking actions based on race, but only if you are white It goes even further than that - anything that supports the dominant class - technology, science, logic, math and even common sense concepts in language - are considered racist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5uXpwoq0_M

[deleted]

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#168

Post by logicchains »

callamdelaney wrote: post #138

Is there a way we can detect these people and not hire them? It takes enough restraint to refrain from commenting on rampant virtue signalling on LinkedIn and I often fail. Having to deal with it at work would be a step too far.

How about something like, ask their opinion on a contentious technical issue (like dynamic vs static typing). Then, after they've finished answering, ask them to argue sincerely for the opposite viewpoint, and see if they can. A common trait among cancel culture types is they're unwilling to hear/consider the perspectives of people who disagree with them, so they wouldn't be able to fairly present the opposing argument.

Another thing is to make it explicit company policy that people's non-work activities cannnot in any way affect their performance evaluation at work, to disincentivise cancel cuture behaviour. I think in some European countries this is even part of labor law (so a company can't e.g. fire a worker for hearing he went out drinking heavily on the weekend).

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#169

Post by zozbot234 »

jl6 wrote: post #124

Personal politics has absolutely no place in the workplace unless you’re working in politics. Nothing good can come of it. Leave it to the pub and Hacker News. My workplace is a wonderful bastion of big-P-Politics-free collaboration. It is an apolitical safe space. My colleagues and I absolutely do have political views, but there is just no reason whatsoever to share them at work. “Bring your whole self to work” is a…

> Leave it to the pub and Hacker News.

Actually, it would be nice if you left politics out of HN, too. In theory you could talk about politics and policy in a way that's conducive to intellectual interest and curiosity, but I've literally never seen this happen here with any consistency.

The political threads are always littered with knee-jerk hot takes that just don't belong here from an intellectual POV. To be very clear about what I'm saying, this is not about ideology; I've seen this behavior come from all parts of the political spectrum, and I find it even more annoying when "my" preferred side is doing it.

Re: New evidence that British workplaces are losing viewpoint diversity

#170

Post by yerwhat01010 »

dudul wrote: post #4
nanagojo wrote: post #2

This is a pretty bleak look at the future tbh. Guess the bullies won in the end, except this time the bullies believe they are in the right.

Don't bullies always believe they are in the right?

Doesn't everybody?
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