Earlier quoted context omitted.
I believe that voice and video calls work using WebRTC, which is a P2P technology
WebRTC (still) requires a centralized server in order to setup the connection (via STUN/TURN), so if so, Signal could be forced to turn over any logging they have of those setup requests.
Grand jury subpoena for Signal user data, Central District of California
41–50 of 226 posts
Re: Grand jury subpoena for Signal user data, Central District of California
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Smartphones in their current form cannot have secure messaging. What about self-hosted matrix/element, used from the browser?
I think the parent poster wanted to highlight the auto update feature of phones.
Re: Grand jury subpoena for Signal user data, Central District of California
#43Let's see if they try to search the Signal servers for any evidence. And if there is really no information stored. Or if that will disrupt Signal services. The central, non-distributed architecture is always a big concern against Signal.
Even if it's decentralized there's only one client and they can always push updates to male it send keys/messages back for targeted users. Smartphones in their current form cannot have secure messaging.
The clients are open source, presumably you can compile and install the client from source to avoid a bad update being pushed.
Re: Grand jury subpoena for Signal user data, Central District of California
#44For their first subpoena [1], they said: > It originally included a broad gag order that would have prevented us from publishing this notice, but the ACLU represented us in quickly and successfully securing our ability to publish the transcripts below. This subpoena says: > you are asked not to disclose the existence of nature of the subpoena But the post doesn't mention that at all. I wonder how much effort they had…
Indefinite gag orders aren't a good thing, but if there is an investigation and knowledge of that investigation can interfere with it then I can see why they would be "asked" not to publish it.
These asks should have time limits though, just like security disclosure. The only valid reason to keep it under covers would be just that: because it could interfere with an ongoing investigation.
Asking to not disclose inquiries while an investigation is ongoing, or "withing 12 months due to an ongoing criminal investigation" would have better optics.
Re: Grand jury subpoena for Signal user data, Central District of California
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
> They have a bad rep already for sending out extortion letters to torrent users That's almost never the ISPs doing, they are being strong armed by IP owners.
Sure, but some ISPs get strong-armed while others get... weak-armed. (And that's being generous to many of them.)
Re: Grand jury subpoena for Signal user data, Central District of California
#46The subpoena is from Homeland Security Investigations at LAX airport. They deal specifically with crimes that involve international transport. So this is human trafficking, drug smuggling, money mules, etc. To be honest the rest of it is just standard "we have some phone numbers" boilerplate. Same thing was probably sent to Facebook, Twitter, etc. with the hopes that someone was dumb enough to login and check their m…
You’re also just speculating about the nature of the crime, but saying it confidently, like, oh, this is definitely true. You don’t know.
Re: Grand jury subpoena for Signal user data, Central District of California
#47Re: Grand jury subpoena for Signal user data, Central District of California
#48Page 8 of that subpoena says the document files produced must have the extension "*.TIF". (note asterisk) I wonder how they'd like it if you sent them files literally named FILE001.PAGE001.*.TIF (the rest of the specified file format structure notwithstanding) It's very important to follow the instructions exactly when you are legally compelled to do something!
It’s interesting how the government gets to demand the evidence in a very specific format, thereby offloading the work the government should be doing onto someone else, apparently without recompense.
Re: Grand jury subpoena for Signal user data, Central District of California
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
I believe that voice and video calls work using WebRTC, which is a P2P technology
WebRTC (still) requires a centralized server in order to setup the connection (via STUN/TURN), so if so, Signal could be forced to turn over any logging they have of those setup requests.
Re: Grand jury subpoena for Signal user data, Central District of California
#50The subpoena is from Homeland Security Investigations at LAX airport. They deal specifically with crimes that involve international transport. So this is human trafficking, drug smuggling, money mules, etc. To be honest the rest of it is just standard "we have some phone numbers" boilerplate. Same thing was probably sent to Facebook, Twitter, etc. with the hopes that someone was dumb enough to login and check their m…
The structure of grand juries makes it so that the defense is unable to mount a defense. The fact that grand juries often result in indictment has vanishing little relevance for whether or not it’s a fishing expedition. Further, no one is saying it is a fishing expedition. It’s a request for information that Signal isn’t designed to be able to answer. You’re also just speculating about the nature of the crime, but sa…
† Americans didn't invent them, but they did keep them after everybody else went "Wait, this is a terrible idea" and abolished the Grand Jury.