Epicurious Will No Longer Publish Beef Recipes • Hacker News Board

Re: Epicurious Will No Longer Publish Beef Recipes

#41

Post by bafumio » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 10:21 AM UTC

CaptArmchair wrote: post #31

bafumio wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that make the co2 and methan go away? Every cow produces it. And do you have a conflict that you are able to pay higher prices for meat than a lot of other people?

> Every cow produces it. Every individual cow does produce CO2 and Methane. But that's not causing rapid climate change. The root cause is perceiving cows - or meat in general - as a commodity. Factory farming, raising and keeping tens of thousands of animals, has little to do with the historically intricate relationship between individual humans and cattle. It's about producing as much of a resource as possible in o…

I try to do the same with meat. I can easily afford it and do it seldom.

60-100$ price for bio beef is not a problem.

My internal issue has more to do with the conflict of me being able to afford the best meat on the market but a lot more can't.

Can I tell poor people to stop buying cheap meat while still consuming it myself?

Re: Epicurious Will No Longer Publish Beef Recipes

#42

Post by bafumio » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 10:22 AM UTC

tasssko wrote: post #36

bafumio wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that make the co2 and methan go away? Every cow produces it. And do you have a conflict that you are able to pay higher prices for meat than a lot of other people?

The issue here is there is no balance in the discussion. we push people to be vegan and they become radical environmentalists but the vegan lifestyle for the average person is filled with processed foods with no discussion of the environmental impact of food processing. Busy people have no time for some of the food preparation required to be vegan. There is no balance of conversation at all. Regarding the comment abo…

You do?

Do you get the cheapest meat available?

Where do you live?

Re: Epicurious Will No Longer Publish Beef Recipes

#43

Post by AI_Overlord_ » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 11:10 AM UTC

I was much more concerned about my beef consumption before watching this WIL video. It put things in perspective for me. The efficiency of beef production in each country, how water and land use calculations are done, equivalent nutritional value compared to other crops was very interesting.

It doesn't negate the moral problems with factory farming, but that wasn't the intent of the video.

https://youtu.be/sGG-A80Tl5g

Re: Epicurious Will No Longer Publish Beef Recipes

#44

Post by CaptArmchair » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 11:28 AM UTC

bafumio wrote: post #41

CaptArmchair wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every cow produces it. Every individual cow does produce CO2 and Methane. But that's not causing rapid climate change. The root cause is perceiving cows - or meat in general - as a commodity. Factory farming, raising and keeping tens of thousands of animals, has little to do with the historically intricate relationship between individual humans and cattle. It's about producing as much of a resource as possible in o…

I try to do the same with meat. I can easily afford it and do it seldom. 60-100$ price for bio beef is not a problem. My internal issue has more to do with the conflict of me being able to afford the best meat on the market but a lot more can't. Can I tell poor people to stop buying cheap meat while still consuming it myself?

> Can I tell poor people to stop buying cheap meat while still consuming it myself?

Aren't the more interesting questions: why are so many individiuals poor? can't afford to buy produce at an "ethically reasonable" price point?

Re: Epicurious Will No Longer Publish Beef Recipes

#45

Post by TheCapeGreek » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 12:07 PM UTC

CaptArmchair wrote: post #44

bafumio wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I try to do the same with meat. I can easily afford it and do it seldom. 60-100$ price for bio beef is not a problem. My internal issue has more to do with the conflict of me being able to afford the best meat on the market but a lot more can't. Can I tell poor people to stop buying cheap meat while still consuming it myself?

> Can I tell poor people to stop buying cheap meat while still consuming it myself? Aren't the more interesting questions: why are so many individiuals poor? can't afford to buy produce at an "ethically reasonable" price point?

Making your product available to the widest amount of people possible can also drive the mass-production practices talked about in this thread. So it's not just people being poor, it's that poor people are a huge market!

Re: Epicurious Will No Longer Publish Beef Recipes

#46

Post by junon » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 12:11 PM UTC

elite_hackers wrote: post #20

junon wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the biggest problem with climate change in my opinion. Public education is abysmal and as someone that fully believes in it I still have the exact same issue - I have no clear understanding of the problem in order to make a clear decision as to where I could focus my efforts.

You think -that- is the “biggest problem” with climate change? I’ve got bad news for you kid

You missed my point and you were a jerk in the process. Bravo.

Re: Epicurious Will No Longer Publish Beef Recipes

#47

Post by airhead969 » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 12:24 PM UTC

tasssko wrote: post #14

I do think the problem is there is no differentiation between organic animal husbandry which has proven benefits (the pastures capture carbon dioxide etc) and the intensive factory farms. I have been reasonably selective of my meat sources over the past decade buying from a local butcher who sources from local organic farms and i am a happy customer and not ashamed.

You can't provide billions of organic, free-range, hipster beef burgers to the entire world and expect there to not be associated massive anthropogenic costs to GHGEs and air/water/soil pollution. The point is meat ag for the whole world is inherently not scalable, not sustainable, and a losing luxury like ivory that needs to go away ASAP.

Re: Epicurious Will No Longer Publish Beef Recipes

#48

Post by airhead969 » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 12:26 PM UTC

TheCapeGreek wrote: post #45

CaptArmchair wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can I tell poor people to stop buying cheap meat while still consuming it myself? Aren't the more interesting questions: why are so many individiuals poor? can't afford to buy produce at an "ethically reasonable" price point?

Making your product available to the widest amount of people possible can also drive the mass-production practices talked about in this thread. So it's not just people being poor, it's that poor people are a huge market!

The US govt subsidizes many grains and provides socialism to farmers to make soda and burgers cheap, at the cost of healthcare and the climate. Often, fast food is only what poor people can afford.

Re: Epicurious Will No Longer Publish Beef Recipes

#49

Post by bryanlarsen » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 12:40 PM UTC

bafumio wrote: post #21

tasssko wrote: post #14

I do think the problem is there is no differentiation between organic animal husbandry which has proven benefits (the pastures capture carbon dioxide etc) and the intensive factory farms. I have been reasonably selective of my meat sources over the past decade buying from a local butcher who sources from local organic farms and i am a happy customer and not ashamed.

How does that make the co2 and methan go away? Every cow produces it. And do you have a conflict that you are able to pay higher prices for meat than a lot of other people?

Cattle on ranchland can easily be CO2 negative. Soil is a great carbon sink. So as long as the quality of the soil is increasing, we're removing CO2 from the atmosphere. Cattle and Buffalo are great for the soil, unlike other grass consumers like sheep.

Methane is a more difficult problem. It's mostly soluble with specific supplements and other mechanisms, but it's an expensive process that ranchers won't pay for unless there are proper incentives.

Re: Epicurious Will No Longer Publish Beef Recipes

#50

Post by CaptArmchair » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 12:45 PM UTC

airhead969 wrote: post #48

TheCapeGreek wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making your product available to the widest amount of people possible can also drive the mass-production practices talked about in this thread. So it's not just people being poor, it's that poor people are a huge market!

The US govt subsidizes many grains and provides socialism to farmers to make soda and burgers cheap, at the cost of healthcare and the climate. Often, fast food is only what poor people can afford.

True enough. I wouldn't call it "socialism" though. The reality is that individual / independent farming isn't economically viable since farmers have to compete with these large factory farms.

Most farmers running factory farms at the behest of large private corporations who define what the farmer can and can't do because they invest in these farms. Factory farms aren't diverse farms: they produce only one specific commodity e.g. meat, dairy, grain, soy beans,... The price the farmer can get is entirely defined by those large commercial interests.

Just think about the notion that farmers, by contract, need to buy seeds from these corporations. Seeds which are protected by intellectual property law. As a result, the practice of seed saving - which is thousands of years old - has become a liability as there's a risk of patent infringement. As a result, farmers aren't just forced to buy seeds, they have to buy those seeds every year, and they can't really choose between suppliers by contract.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seed_saving

Such practices render farmers into anything but employees in name. It would be "socialist" if the farmer retained their freedom and their vote in how the farm is run. Legally speaking, they still do have that freedom and that agency as a legally independent business. But in practice, the exploitative nature of the economic relationship between farmers, the markets and these corporations has turned that pretty much into a meaningless concepts.

In that regard, the subsidization of agriculture doesn't benefit the farmers. It benefits those corporations through these entirely skewed market dynamics.