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What really drives the poor

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Re: What really drives the poor

#21

They finally hit on the real story halfway down: "“Generally, it is clear that things that make life less boring are a priority for the poor,” they write in their new book." Yes, the poor spend their money unwisely when they have extra. That's the real reason. If a rich person finds themselves down on their luck, they knuckle down and work really hard to get into a situation where they can afford to buy luxuries. It…

Most very poor people are not young, athletic, with good physical and mental health, no dependents, and the background security of being able to leave their circumstances immediately any time they want. The book is "Scratch Beginnings" by Adam Shepard, btw.

Most very poor people are not young, athletic, with good physical and mental health, no dependents, and the background security of being able to leave their circumstances immediately any time they want.

Chicken and egg problem?

Re: What really drives the poor

#23
post #13

They finally hit on the real story halfway down: "“Generally, it is clear that things that make life less boring are a priority for the poor,” they write in their new book." Yes, the poor spend their money unwisely when they have extra. That's the real reason. If a rich person finds themselves down on their luck, they knuckle down and work really hard to get into a situation where they can afford to buy luxuries. It…

I think that's quite funny. If he really was poor, that unexpected family member becoming ill would probably have knocked him back financially / meant he had to take time off work to care for them whatever.

Sudden unforseen and expensive illness in the family isn't really all that common though. Furthermore, it is only really a problem in countries such as the US which don't have affordable healthcare for the poor.

There certainly are many people in this world that are poor because of a series of very unfortunate incidences that put them at a disadvantage. However, I think it's pretty clear that despite how common that may be, it cannot begin to explain the majority of poverty in "1st world" societies.

Re: What really drives the poor

#24
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Andrew Carnegie would disagree. He didn't start out rich, but he ended up (very) rich.

Not everyone is Andrew Carnegie. Perhaps other mechanisms to reduce poverty will be more effective.

Capitalism reduced the poverty of Singapore, South Korea, Vietnam, Chile, and Estonia (to name a few).

What country was built from foreign aid?

Re: What really drives the poor

#25

They finally hit on the real story halfway down: "“Generally, it is clear that things that make life less boring are a priority for the poor,” they write in their new book." Yes, the poor spend their money unwisely when they have extra. That's the real reason. If a rich person finds themselves down on their luck, they knuckle down and work really hard to get into a situation where they can afford to buy luxuries. It…

For one thing, it makes a lot of difference whether or not you have a safety net when you're on a tightrope.

I'm not sure that analogy holds. I'll accept that in the literal case it does, since I can easily see how being nervous would effect physical coordination while walking on a tightrope, but I don't see how being nervous of failure would render you unable to work hard unskilled labor jobs or save money. On the contrary, I expect it would help by providing real motivation.

Re: What really drives the poor

#26
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone is Andrew Carnegie. Perhaps other mechanisms to reduce poverty will be more effective.

Capitalism reduced the poverty of Singapore, South Korea, Vietnam, Chile, and Estonia (to name a few). What country was built from foreign aid?

Perhaps changing the subject from Andrew Carnegie will express my discomfort with the implicit syllogism more effectively.

Cory Doctorow gives his books away for free. Cory Doctorow has achieved great financial and literary success. Therefore, everyone who gives books away for free will achieve great financial and literary success.

Re: What really drives the poor

#27

They finally hit on the real story halfway down: "“Generally, it is clear that things that make life less boring are a priority for the poor,” they write in their new book." Yes, the poor spend their money unwisely when they have extra. That's the real reason. If a rich person finds themselves down on their luck, they knuckle down and work really hard to get into a situation where they can afford to buy luxuries. It…

It may not be quite that easy though. This person would already have prior knowledge on making good decisions whereas the poor (probably) don't.

That being said, here's a book with a similar premise and a different outcome: http://www.amazon.com/Nickel-Dimed-Not-Getting-America/dp/08...

The author finds herself barely able to make it. Grant it, she approaches the situation rather pessimistically, the book still paints a decent picture as to why so many people are struggling.

Re: What really drives the poor

#28
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone is Andrew Carnegie. Perhaps other mechanisms to reduce poverty will be more effective.

Capitalism reduced the poverty of Singapore, South Korea, Vietnam, Chile, and Estonia (to name a few). What country was built from foreign aid?

South Korea was build heavily from foreign aid, both military and otherwise. How about Japan and the Marshall plan?

Re: What really drives the poor

#29

They finally hit on the real story halfway down: "“Generally, it is clear that things that make life less boring are a priority for the poor,” they write in their new book." Yes, the poor spend their money unwisely when they have extra. That's the real reason. If a rich person finds themselves down on their luck, they knuckle down and work really hard to get into a situation where they can afford to buy luxuries. It…

At 9 months, he had completed his goal, and a family member fell ill.

Wait, what was this? He got faced with a situation he couldn't handle with wise decision-making, saving, and elbow grease and had to tap into his riches to get himself out?

You know, the real problem is that he got a nice apartment and car. If he lived in a shack and walked everywhere, I bet he'd have been able to help his family member out. Was he just not trying, or was he trying and making bad decisions?

Re: What really drives the poor

#30
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone is Andrew Carnegie. Perhaps other mechanisms to reduce poverty will be more effective.

Capitalism reduced the poverty of Singapore, South Korea, Vietnam, Chile, and Estonia (to name a few). What country was built from foreign aid?

You could argue that most of Western Europe and indeed Japan was only able to recover as quickly from WW2 because of aid from the United States (e.g. the Marshall Plan in Europe) - and both areas seem to have done quite well.

Isn't it also arguable that present day countries that started as colonies also benefited from a degree of aid/investment from the countries doing the colonizing? Setting up colonies was an expensive and risky business, indeed the country I am in was forced to unite with our larger and richer neighbor to the south largely because of a failed attempt to establish such colonies:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/civil_war_revolution/sc...

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