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What really drives the poor

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Re: What really drives the poor

#11

They finally hit on the real story halfway down: "“Generally, it is clear that things that make life less boring are a priority for the poor,” they write in their new book." Yes, the poor spend their money unwisely when they have extra. That's the real reason. If a rich person finds themselves down on their luck, they knuckle down and work really hard to get into a situation where they can afford to buy luxuries. It…

Most very poor people are not young, athletic, with good physical and mental health, no dependents, and the background security of being able to leave their circumstances immediately any time they want.

The book is "Scratch Beginnings" by Adam Shepard, btw.

Re: What really drives the poor

#12

They finally hit on the real story halfway down: "“Generally, it is clear that things that make life less boring are a priority for the poor,” they write in their new book." Yes, the poor spend their money unwisely when they have extra. That's the real reason. If a rich person finds themselves down on their luck, they knuckle down and work really hard to get into a situation where they can afford to buy luxuries. It…

here's the story: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scratch_Beginnings

Re: What really drives the poor

#13

They finally hit on the real story halfway down: "“Generally, it is clear that things that make life less boring are a priority for the poor,” they write in their new book." Yes, the poor spend their money unwisely when they have extra. That's the real reason. If a rich person finds themselves down on their luck, they knuckle down and work really hard to get into a situation where they can afford to buy luxuries. It…

I think that's quite funny. If he really was poor, that unexpected family member becoming ill would probably have knocked him back financially / meant he had to take time off work to care for them whatever.

Re: What really drives the poor

#14

They finally hit on the real story halfway down: "“Generally, it is clear that things that make life less boring are a priority for the poor,” they write in their new book." Yes, the poor spend their money unwisely when they have extra. That's the real reason. If a rich person finds themselves down on their luck, they knuckle down and work really hard to get into a situation where they can afford to buy luxuries. It…

The fact that he could give up without consequence when his family member got ill is significant. If he was actually poor, caring for his family member could have put him back at square one again.

[Edit: oops, someone else beat me to it]

Re: What really drives the poor

#15

They finally hit on the real story halfway down: "“Generally, it is clear that things that make life less boring are a priority for the poor,” they write in their new book." Yes, the poor spend their money unwisely when they have extra. That's the real reason. If a rich person finds themselves down on their luck, they knuckle down and work really hard to get into a situation where they can afford to buy luxuries. It…

"In other words, he spent his money wisely and was able to vastly improve his lifestyle in less than a year."

He also had the privilege of a good education and good upbringing. You are making way too many assumptions to think that all it takes is wisdom and good decisions. What we can think and do is strongly shaped by our environment, and getting yourself out of poverty is harder than you think.

Re: What really drives the poor

#16
post #10

They finally hit on the real story halfway down: "“Generally, it is clear that things that make life less boring are a priority for the poor,” they write in their new book." Yes, the poor spend their money unwisely when they have extra. That's the real reason. If a rich person finds themselves down on their luck, they knuckle down and work really hard to get into a situation where they can afford to buy luxuries. It…

That story ignores so many of the issues related to growing up in poverty. If poverty is all you've ever been around, it's never as simple as just "working hard and making good decisions".

Andrew Carnegie would disagree. He didn't start out rich, but he ended up (very) rich.

Re: What really drives the poor

#17

They finally hit on the real story halfway down: "“Generally, it is clear that things that make life less boring are a priority for the poor,” they write in their new book." Yes, the poor spend their money unwisely when they have extra. That's the real reason. If a rich person finds themselves down on their luck, they knuckle down and work really hard to get into a situation where they can afford to buy luxuries. It…

>It isn't about lack of opportunity. It's about wise choices.

...and knowing wise choices exist. If you're brought up to just get by and the people all around you have the same mentality knowing that there's a superior mentality requires looking outside the box. This is where mentorship and real education (beyond education that conditions you to just show up on time) are valuable.

Re: What really drives the poor

#18
post #16
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That story ignores so many of the issues related to growing up in poverty. If poverty is all you've ever been around, it's never as simple as just "working hard and making good decisions".

Andrew Carnegie would disagree. He didn't start out rich, but he ended up (very) rich.

Not everyone is Andrew Carnegie. Perhaps other mechanisms to reduce poverty will be more effective.

Re: What really drives the poor

#19

They finally hit on the real story halfway down: "“Generally, it is clear that things that make life less boring are a priority for the poor,” they write in their new book." Yes, the poor spend their money unwisely when they have extra. That's the real reason. If a rich person finds themselves down on their luck, they knuckle down and work really hard to get into a situation where they can afford to buy luxuries. It…

>>> Are they not trying? Are they trying, but making too many bad decisions? I think that the answer is a combination of bad memes and human nature. I ask almost every auto-rickshaw driver whose vehicle I sit in about their income and how do they live. I then listen to them and offer them suggestions that might help them out. It turns out that things just aren't that simple.

From the article;

>>> Indeed, they may well be more driven by ideas, simply because they have less information about the world outside and, therefore, feel a greater need to use their collective imagination to fill the gaps in their knowledge It's crucial to understand that these people haven't seen any examples to the contrary. They just don't have access to them. They live in societies that are highly stratified and tend to learn, quickly, to obey the hierarchy when it comes to outsiders, because if they "step out of bounds" the consequences can be ugly. So, they simply don't have access to people with good memes, and their minds are shaped by that narrow microcosm. Neither do they have the means to understand how to attain something better, because for them that's the only existence they know and it is what it is.

This might be maddeningly annoying for you and me, but think about how your upbringing and the social circles you run in have shaped you to thrive in your environment. How can someone use those metrics and ideas to eke out success in the hierarchy of a remote african tribe? (I'm talking about concrete, implementable ideas not abstract ones)Well, you say that you'll learn them, but if no one is around and you don't have the means to teach yourself said memes how will you ever learn? Yes, you'll scrape on by, but you just won't thrive.

They just don't know any better. Moreover, they don't even know that can be changed.

Think about it.

Here's what I think is the crucial ingredient;

>>> They don’t just need nutrition that will keep them alive longer—they also need a reason to want to live longer. Being healthier by denying yourself the little pleasures you can afford, a cup of tea or a bowl of steaming rice, makes little sense if you have nothing else to look forward to, That man had something to look forward to. They don't.

For them survival is ugly and fraught with absolutely no meaning and it's been that way their entire lives. Anyone would ponder suicide in their environment at least once. This helps them to keep sane and escape the drudgery, which is a bit like the rich and the middle class taking extravagant holidays, or going out to get drunk etc. It's something to look forward to, but for us we have other options that give us the same satisfaction. They don't. Partly because they can't visualise them, but mostly because of the daily grind to survive.

So, don't judge them. They are real people just like you and me.

Re: What really drives the poor

#20

They finally hit on the real story halfway down: "“Generally, it is clear that things that make life less boring are a priority for the poor,” they write in their new book." Yes, the poor spend their money unwisely when they have extra. That's the real reason. If a rich person finds themselves down on their luck, they knuckle down and work really hard to get into a situation where they can afford to buy luxuries. It…

It is really as simple as noting the robust heritability of cognitive traits (see "The Blank Slate") and the strong correlation between intelligence, conscientiousness, and wealth.

But surprisingly, many highly intelligent people (including many in this very thread) will actually deny that they have any natural cognitive advantages over the poor. They will readily admit they are smarter than those "idiots" who can't code Fizzbuzz, or the ones who comment at Youtube, or the software engineers who're still doing Cobol, or the tea partiers...but they won't admit they are naturally smarter than the average poor person.

In fact, they are actually more ready to characterize themselves (or others) as oppressors of some sort than to admit that they are gifted.

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