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Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

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Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#141

Post by ryukafalz »

madeofpalk wrote: post #50
encryptluks2 wrote: post #23

You can have third-party Android app stores. Can you say the same about Apple? While I agree that Google has market-dominance, they are not anti-competition or anti-consumer in the same sense as Apple. Android is open source, Chrome OS is open source, etc. Google is actually providing and contributing something back to the community. Apple intentionally locks people to specific hardware and to their app store.

Let’s not pretend they do these things as charity. Chrome is open source because, as a fork of WebKit, it has to be. For other things, they use open source to drive adoption.

Chrome is not open source.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#142

Post by commoner »

hugi wrote: post #96
encryptluks2 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Privacy like tracking your app launches? https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-says-itll-change-how-it-coll...

Did you even read the article you linked?

> Now, Apple says it has stopped logging user IP addresses collected by the feature, and will delete previous logs of IP addresses. Without IP addresses, there's far less danger that records of app usage could be tied back to users.

https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-says-itll-change-how-it-coll...

Apple is still tracking app launches in macOS, even though it has said that it will stop logging IP addresses along with that usage data.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#143

Post by shawnz »

hugi wrote: post #121
shawnz wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if they change their mind about the rules and their vision becomes inconsistent with what you want? You'll have no recourse and vendor lock-in will prevent you from switching platforms

Wat? No. I'd buy another phone. There's plenty of choices.

It will be inconvenient and even impossible to migrate some things (for example contacts, iMessage history, app data). Espcially consider how difficult it would be for a novice user to migrate. And what are those other choices? Presumably you are not considering Android devices.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#144

Post by stale2002 »

hugi wrote: post #35
diogenesjunior wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm happy to use an iPhone, knowing my personal information is safe and it reduces my chances of being Harvested by Google LOL. Instead of bowing down to one master, you chose to bow down to the other?

I choose to spend my money on devices from a company that's explicitly and repeatedly stated that their mission is privacy. But if you choose to buy phones from ad companies, it's your decision.

Well you will continue to be allowed to make these decisions if you want, but after these lawsuits go through, other people will also be free to use other app store as well.

Problem solved. You get to keep using apple app stores, and other people can choose something else.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#145

Post by fredophile »

havernator wrote: post #77
encryptluks2 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I don't understand the argument Apple users are presenting. Its like they can't comprehend that they can have an option to install third-party apps but they don't have to enable or use that if they like being "protected" from hurting themselves.

Right now, ~100% of the software available for iOS has to follow Apple's rules, offer a consistent and safe payment method, and install through the App Store. I assume you think that would change, else why have other app stores. That's what I don't want. I want as close to 100% of the software for iOS as possible to have to follow the rules. That's part of why I chose iOS.

Would you be willing to pay a premium for that? What if Apple allowed other stores and simultaneously allowed apps to sell things for more on their store than they charge on other stores? Then an app maker could release on both and charge more to account for Apple's cut and any extra expenses they have releasing on their store.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#146

Post by AnthonyMouse »

havernator wrote: post #135
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Right now, ~100% of the software available for iOS has to follow Apple's rules, offer a consistent and safe payment method, and install through the App Store. The same would still be true of all the apps in the App Store. There would just be other stores. You wouldn't have to use them. Other people could. The issue here is that many people want the hardware or the OS without the App Store. If you give it to them, "…

I'd care about this a lot less if the government first outlawed most personal data collection & hoarding (by tech companies and others) before we go destroying the libertarian solution to this (outsource regulation to a company, which is what I'm choosing to do, given the alternatives)

It's not really destroying it. You can still refuse to install any apps not approved by Apple, even if other people do.

It might even be a good test. If Facebook decides they can't be in Apple's store even though the app is free and there is no government pressure for Apple to block it, you might take pause to ask why and decide that you don't want that app.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#147

Post by hu3 »

meepmorp wrote: post #134
hu3 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They'll flip the nanosecond it suits them. Like when Apple dropped end-to-end encryption on iCloud because FBI asked them politely. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusiv...

https://blog.elcomsoft.com/2021/01/apple-fbi-and-iphone-back...

"The encryption keys are stored at Apple’ own servers"

Thanks for confirming that there's no privacy in iCloud.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#148

Post by m4rtink »

alfiedotwtf wrote: post #4
hank808 wrote: post #3

I'd love to see a solid non-OS specific app store come into being. I own anyapp.com and any.app, let me know if anyone wants to partner up.

F-droid tends to fill the gap for Andriod, but not enough developers sending their apps there. I guess when there's no monetary incentive, it's only the open source crowd that will participate

F-droid also has the sane condition that all apps it distributes need to be built from source on its build infra (basically all Linux distros require the same).

While really good for security and debugging I can imagine it can be complicated to suport for many less experienced developers used to cooling stuff together in an Android IDE where a binary APK falls out at the end that they then upload to the store.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#149

Post by paxys »

numair wrote: post #61

There is no reason Apple and Google couldn’t set up an App Store Certification framework which would allow trusted third parties to operate their own app stores that were regularly audited and liable for breaches of security. In fact, this would be far better than the current approach, where these business units are largely unaccountable and hidden behind layers of corporate complexity (which eventually leads to dysf…

Funny thing is, both companies do exactly this to operate in China. The government does not allow companies to run their own app stores, so Apple and Google (and others who have similar kinds of online stores) have to hand over all operations – including app submission, storage, approvals, install etc. to another local government-approved company completely outside their control. They do all this willingly because they have to, and you don't hear a peep about it from them as they fight other governments worldwide who are trying to enforce even the slightest amount of control of their own.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#150

Post by post_break »

jbverschoor wrote: post #8

Well I love my Apple App Store. It protects me for certain things with payments, and it’s another line of defense against some attacks.

Have you ever used a Mac though? Has an App Store, and you can choose to install apps from third parties if you want to. Best of both worlds.
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