My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community • Hacker News Board

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#621

Post by dd444fgdfg » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 2:28 AM UTC

It's so hard to talk about something like this objectively because momentum of the mob towards the popular discourse makes it almost impossible to detach.

The woman does not say she was raped or anything happened to her without her consent (unless I missed that in which case I apologize and retract this comment, but I couldn't find it).

The person currently being cancelled was a "community leader" (apparently) but was not her boss, teacher, or in official power over her. It sounds like he is a creep who manipulates women to be with him. What specifically did he do differently from any other guy who tries to "woo" a woman?

These women consented to be with him at the time for the perceived benefits of being close to the community leader and what comes with it. They are adult women who made decisions. Now they want to retrospectively apply alternative morals to their actions at the time because they wish they didn't do that.

You did this, it didn't happen to you.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#622

Post by Ar-Curunir » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 2:35 AM UTC

oh_sigh wrote: post #589

Ar-Curunir wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, a system where rape kits sit unprocessed for years

How familiar are you with how Germany processes rape kits? I assume that you assume this was in America.

Germany only moved to a consent-based legal definition of rape in 2016, so I’m not sure it has the best legal handling of rape either.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#623

Post by oh_sigh » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 2:47 AM UTC

colecut wrote: post #569

oh_sigh wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't go to jail without reason. Therefore everyone in jail is guilty.

Nice stretch

"What if a bunch of cops who don't even know you got together and decided to ruin your life with accusations?"

This just pretty much does not happen without reason, and I think it is safe to say that if it did, you are probably a terrible person.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#624

Post by tzs » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 2:50 AM UTC

dmit wrote: post #251

eloff wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No. The idea that being around a member of the opposite sex (and does this apply to members of the same sex? e.g. men raping men, and women raping women?) I specifically used the word person because I think this could happen between any two people of any sex. I'm certain it even happens to men, by women. Just men are much less likely to regret it the next day. > levies some kind of 'responsibility' to be on the loo…

> If you gave consent because you were drunk, that's not really rape, it could be poor judgment. No, it's lack of judgement. Total inability to judge, in fact. > The perpetrator might reasonably think you're sober enough to make your own decisions. Especially if they are also inebriated. It doesn't matter what the perpetrator thinks. And especially ? Is the perpetrator less guilty of rape depending on his blood alcoh…

> It doesn't matter what the perpetrator thinks.

It does matter in most jurisdictions. Rape is usually not a strict liability crime. Conviction requires both an act (actus reus) and criminal intent (mens rea) on the part of the defendant. (Statutory rape, on the other hand, often is strict liability with only an actus reus requirement).

Generally if an act can be legal or illegal and the defendant believes that they are doing the legal version, the mens rea requirement is not met and the defendant is not guilty. Many jurisdictions do require that the defendant's belief be in good faith and their mistake be one that a reasonable person could make.

For an example of the kind of thing the prosecution must typically prove, here are California's jury instructions for "rape of intoxicated woman or spouse" [1].

[1] https://www.justia.com/criminal/docs/calcrim/1000/1002/

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#625

Post by subjectsigma » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 2:52 AM UTC

colecut wrote: post #272

epicureanideal wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes character assassination is coordinated. I personally only slightly increase the probability of something being true when multiple accusers come forward. I still want to see proof. What if a bunch of your ex-girlfriends or ex-boyfriends got together and decided to ruin your life with accusations?

"What if a bunch of your ex-girlfriends or ex-boyfriends got together and decided to ruin your life with accusations?" This just pretty much does not happen without reason, and I think it is safe to say that if it did, you are probably a terrible person.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_University_rape_contr...

TL;DR guy was falsely accused of rape and then harassed for a year regarding the incident with the help of university professors at Columbia.

I don't know about "a bunch of your ex-girlfriends" but never say never...

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#626

Post by grayhatter » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 3:02 AM UTC

throway98752343 wrote: post #293

epicureanideal wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes character assassination is coordinated. I personally only slightly increase the probability of something being true when multiple accusers come forward. I still want to see proof. What if a bunch of your ex-girlfriends or ex-boyfriends got together and decided to ruin your life with accusations?

If a bunch of people who once had close, perhaps even loving relationships with you all come forward and risk their own reputation to say you're bad enough to warrant criminal action, I'd say it's on you to prove them wrong. Or maybe it's all a grand conspiracy, in which case let's follow the money and see that it leads... nowhere.

Yeah, you're right! If enough people say you did something you should have to prove you didn't do that thing. Everyone knows it's much easier to prove something didn't happen, then to prove something did. Show me the evidence you didn't do the thing!

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#627

Post by jimmygrapes » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 3:28 AM UTC

colecut wrote: post #272

epicureanideal wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes character assassination is coordinated. I personally only slightly increase the probability of something being true when multiple accusers come forward. I still want to see proof. What if a bunch of your ex-girlfriends or ex-boyfriends got together and decided to ruin your life with accusations?

"What if a bunch of your ex-girlfriends or ex-boyfriends got together and decided to ruin your life with accusations?" This just pretty much does not happen without reason, and I think it is safe to say that if it did, you are probably a terrible person.

Similar happened to me. I dated a woman whose step sister was dating my 2nd cousin (no genetic interbreeding). At some point we had a falling out about her infidelity, but her emotional sway with both her family and mine were more supportive of her story. At first it was just "it didn't work out" but as time passed she decided, for reasons I don't know or understand, that I needed to be punished. She invented several different stories and spread them at the family gatherings I wasn't invited to, and eventually I had both her and her extended family and my extended family first avoiding me, then actively excluding me from communication and visits.

Eventually I learned that she claimed I was touching her daughter and was cheating on her with her coworker (whom I had never even met). I tried to defend myself but it was too late.

Today she has been married and divorced twice, and I have zero contact with any of those involved. I only know her status because Facebook doesn't stop sending me update email despite deactivating that account years ago.

Point is, the whisper network is powerful, and doesn't give a shit about reality.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#628

Post by scala_boob » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 3:32 AM UTC

analognoise wrote: post #419

faitswulff wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 but especially our boys. Girls and women already learn so much about how to avoid being harmed by men. It’s time for our boys to learn how to become kind men - and for those of us who are men to model that for them.

Doesn't this remove agency from women? If two adults get together, fly together, get a room together, drink wine together, have relations... Then we're supposed to say that consent can't be given because the woman is drunk. But they're both drunk. Isn't it essentially the patriarchy to say that a woman can't make that choice? Like if they're equals and they're both drunk, why do we blame the men? Because they aren't…

It's not supposed to be fair, the women are always right

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#629

Post by eloff » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 3:39 AM UTC

tzs wrote: post #624

dmit wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you gave consent because you were drunk, that's not really rape, it could be poor judgment. No, it's lack of judgement. Total inability to judge, in fact. > The perpetrator might reasonably think you're sober enough to make your own decisions. Especially if they are also inebriated. It doesn't matter what the perpetrator thinks. And especially ? Is the perpetrator less guilty of rape depending on his blood alcoh…

> It doesn't matter what the perpetrator thinks. It does matter in most jurisdictions. Rape is usually not a strict liability crime. Conviction requires both an act (actus reus) and criminal intent (mens rea) on the part of the defendant. (Statutory rape, on the other hand, often is strict liability with only an actus reus requirement). Generally if an act can be legal or illegal and the defendant believes that they…

Thank you for lending an expert opinion backed by facts to a conversation that otherwise has been devoid of it.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#630

Post by eloff » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 3:40 AM UTC

totony wrote: post #499

WesolyKubeczek wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you get drunk downtown, does it make getting your pockets picked and your smartphone stolen your fault ? You’re stupid if you get drunk downtown with an expensive smartphone where it can be easily stolen. Still, does it mean that you have somehow to share jail time with your thief, or does it mean that the thief has to serve less time, or that your thief may go with your smartphone because it’s your fault to get d…

>If you get drunk downtown, does it make getting your pockets picked and your smartphone stolen your fault? Even if you are not drunk those are still not your fault in the way its argued here. A better (similar) analogy would be: if you are drunk and someone downtown asks you for 60$ and you give them, but tomorrow realize your mistake, is it your fault?

Yes, this is a more apt analogy.