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My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

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Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#471

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

faitswulff wrote: post #361
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without being too flippant, I'd like to point out that we do actually hold wild bears accountable for their actions. There was a news report last week about a bear shot somewhere in the US because it had attacked someone (it seemed to have been trying to guard a particularly valuable food stash).

The point is that many comments here are assuming that men lack the agency to keep themselves from assaulting people. That lets the men off the hook. To your example, if we blame the bear, we should blame the man, as well.

Absolutely. We do blame wild bears for their actions (we shoot them). We should blame men for their actions (shooting them is likely considered less appropriate in most cases).

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#472

Post by Manuel_D »

analognoise wrote: post #419
faitswulff wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 but especially our boys. Girls and women already learn so much about how to avoid being harmed by men. It’s time for our boys to learn how to become kind men - and for those of us who are men to model that for them.

Doesn't this remove agency from women? If two adults get together, fly together, get a room together, drink wine together, have relations... Then we're supposed to say that consent can't be given because the woman is drunk. But they're both drunk. Isn't it essentially the patriarchy to say that a woman can't make that choice? Like if they're equals and they're both drunk, why do we blame the men? Because they aren't…

At least here in California (and presumably much of the US) the threshold isn't merely intoxication. It's intoxication to the point that someone is incapable of consent. Not impaired judgment or above the legal driving limit, but drunk to the point that they are not even capable of giving a yes/no. If two people are drunk and have sex, evidently at least one of them was capable of consent because they had the capacity to initiate sex.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#473

Post by suifbwish »

orwin wrote: post #442
suifbwish wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the modern day equivalent of being accused of witchcraft. You get a trial but good luck getting your reputation back. People are trained not to doubt this sort of thing end assume guilt, then when confronted they rattle off some supposed statistical fact that it’s virtually impossible for the accuser to be lying.

Ok, my sister was raped by her boss, was found in her appartment three days later my father, who immediately called a lawyer (female, specialized in criminal law). She told my sister that since they were only two in the kitchen with no surveillance camera, she couldn't sue but only report (its called "main courante" in my country) and "hope" that another girl is raped before 2039 and report it. The policeman concurre…

I’m sorry that happened to your family but what do you get out of doing all that. It can’t be more than some sort of satisfaction.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#474

Post by tester756 »

UncleMeat wrote: post #323
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course not, but that's because I know my friend personally. If I saw someone putting up posters outside my apartment complex saying "the guy in Unit 214 is an asshole, he used to beat me up in middle school", I wouldn't spread the accusation without knowing more about what's going on.

Even if you had multiple other people corroborate it?

Why would I magically trust two or three randoms when I dont trust one random?

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#475

Post by screye »

epicureanideal wrote: post #256
swyx wrote: post #20

similar stories are emerging: - https://killnicole.github.io/statement/ (edit i see she has added it to the article itself) - https://twitter.com/brianclapper/status/1387115214064193537?... - https://twitter.com/adelbertchang/status/1387090351626723329... there seems to be some coordination here, as this came out pretty much at the same time. https://typelevel.org/blog/2021/04/27/community-safety.html Yifan also link…

Sometimes character assassination is coordinated. I personally only slightly increase the probability of something being true when multiple accusers come forward. I still want to see proof. What if a bunch of your ex-girlfriends or ex-boyfriends got together and decided to ruin your life with accusations?

> ex-girlfriends or ex-boyfriends got together and decided to ruin your life with accusations

If all of your exes and close associates hate you enough to coordinate a life ruining operation, then it's quite probable that you were abusive in some capacity.

> Sometimes character assassination is coordinated.

Yes, you are right. But look at the other side too. How else do a group of people with no proof retaliate against an abuser but through character assassination ?

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#476

Post by Pfhreak »

baobabKoodaa wrote: post #414
Pfhreak wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being taken advantage of while intoxicated and while there was a significant power imbalance between the two. She was not in a position to give consent there -- being intoxicated, being in a place that was being rented Pretty (and she could risk being out on the street if she refused), having no money and luggage on hand, being the mentee of Pretty (or believing she could be), etc. She ended up crying and panicking.…

It definitely sounds like he abused his position and did a horrible thing, but the thing he did is not rape (assuming OP story is 100% accurate description of events). If 2 people are intoxicated and have sex, do they both rape each other? If one person holds more power than the other, while both are intoxicated, is it just a one-way rape? Or is it still a two-way rape, where one person just "rapes a bit more" and th…

> she is not referring to the events as "rape", so maybe you shouldn't either.

Can you point to where I used that word?

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#477

Post by elzbardico »

colecut wrote: post #272
epicureanideal wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes character assassination is coordinated. I personally only slightly increase the probability of something being true when multiple accusers come forward. I still want to see proof. What if a bunch of your ex-girlfriends or ex-boyfriends got together and decided to ruin your life with accusations?

"What if a bunch of your ex-girlfriends or ex-boyfriends got together and decided to ruin your life with accusations?" This just pretty much does not happen without reason, and I think it is safe to say that if it did, you are probably a terrible person.

Well, people usually do things for a reason, right? But the reason sometimes is not ethical or fair

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#478

Post by sweetheart »

analognoise wrote: post #458
krapp wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, why on earth would it?

It seems like everyone is equal, until everyone is drunk, then the women need to be treated like children and protected. Which is the very thing feminism was fighting AGAINST - having men make decisions for you. Then we blame men, say they need to do better. That seems ridiculous.

> then the women need to be treated like children and protected.

Mate, no. This applies to men, women, nonbinary folks, non-human animals, etc. Literally any living thing. If you don't consent, anyone having sex with you is wrong. It's wrong if a man tries to have sex with a drunk, non-consenting person, and it's wrong if a women tries to have sex with a drunk, non-consenting person.

This is the _opposite_ of making a decision for someone. It's recognizing that they kind of _can't_ make a decision, so you simply do nothing.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#479

Post by pseudalopex »

ALittleLight wrote: post #418
Pfhreak wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why does it take months and therapy for her to decode those clear signals? Because brains aren't just bundles of logical interpreters that fully understand what they are experiencing all the time. There are many, many reasons why we may rationalize some behavior in the moment. Why do victims of cons sometimes defend the con artists for significant periods of time after they leave? Why do humans hold out hope for lo…

I think the paragraph that you identify as a strawman is actually the core of our disagreement. I don't intend it as a strawman of your idea but as an illustration of why I struggle to accept the idea that you can retroactively change whether or not you consented - or, phrased in a way you might be more likely to agree with, whether or not you can reevaluate your consent decisions after the fact. If she doesn't know…

Convincing herself it was consensual after doesn't mean she consented during.

What does consent mean to you? Not saying no? Or an enthusiastic yes?

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#480

Post by merb »

Gatsky wrote: post #438
epicureanideal wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes character assassination is coordinated. I personally only slightly increase the probability of something being true when multiple accusers come forward. I still want to see proof. What if a bunch of your ex-girlfriends or ex-boyfriends got together and decided to ruin your life with accusations?

Is this theoretical or do you have an example of a case where a woman publicly made detailed accusations which turned out to be false? Edit: This is an honest question by the way. Thanks to those who did provide some examples.

Johnny Depp? I'm pretty sure in this case that both might have been toxic.
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