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My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

yifanxing.medium.com

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Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#281

Post by klyrs »

arthur_sav wrote: post #78
JPKab wrote: post #27

Jon Pretty sounds like a complete creep and yes, based on this account, a predator. That being said, there is a court and criminal justice system for a reason. While I empathize with the author, and utterly despise the archetype of high-status men who use their status within programming communities as a tool to target women, I find the nature of these kinds of posts to be counterproductive. Therapeutic to the author?…

Yes, what happened to due diligence?

What happened to free speech? If you think this is slander, don't the same rules apply; mustn't we presume the innocence of Yifan until she's proven guilty?

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#282

Post by lukasb »

WesolyKubeczek wrote: post #223
lukasb wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less than 1% of rapes lead to felony convictions: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/10/06/less-than... Same article notes that between 2-8% of rape complaints are false. Worries about false rape claims are wildly overblown.

And yet you wouldn’t like to fall within those 2-8%.

Aren't you more worried about the 99% of rape victims who receive no justice of any kind?

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#283

Post by willeh »

jnwatson wrote: post #213
willeh wrote: post #198

This may be a tone-deaf sidetrack but also perhaps an important piece of advice for some. There should be an impenetrable barrier between ones love life and ones professional life. While there are certainly people who have met their significant other in a professional setting, there are much better ways of doing that, especially nowadays. By striving to keep this separation water tight we can avoid both unwanted adva…

That's simply unrealistic and unhelpful. That the author met this person in a professional setting is beside the point. It would be just as serious if it happened at a hobby event.

Perhaps `professional` is too narrow then. I think the power differential is an enabling factor for behaviour like this. While there certainly are creeps in normal dating situations, they are often easier to avoid. This story is very much about how this power differential allows one person to abuse another like this.

Being aware of how this affects human relationships is neither unrealistic nor unhelpful. It is something to take seriously and talk about in groups where it could arise.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#284

Post by Pfhreak »

Humdeee wrote: post #249
_qwfv wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever been in an abusive relationship? Or seen one firsthand? People can be made to believe all sorts of things that aren't true by charismatic or powerful people. It may take them some time to realize they are being tricked or abused. You absolutely can be told you consented, and trust that person's word, and realize later that no, actually you had not. It's just convenient for the abuser for you to believe…

This article reads like she did not say no as much as she did not say yes, which leaves the reader in a muddled, grey area and unsure of how to interpret anything. Is she consenting, or more specifically, is she explicitly claiming to not consent? It's a very awkward article, leaving readers with more questions than answers at the end, which is never what you want your readers to feel when garnering support.

Consent is unambiguous and enthusiastic yes. The default assumption is that no consent is given. Not saying yes is the same as saying no.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#285

Post by eloff »

dmit wrote: post #251
eloff wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No. The idea that being around a member of the opposite sex (and does this apply to members of the same sex? e.g. men raping men, and women raping women?) I specifically used the word person because I think this could happen between any two people of any sex. I'm certain it even happens to men, by women. Just men are much less likely to regret it the next day. > levies some kind of 'responsibility' to be on the loo…

> If you gave consent because you were drunk, that's not really rape, it could be poor judgment. No, it's lack of judgement. Total inability to judge, in fact. > The perpetrator might reasonably think you're sober enough to make your own decisions. Especially if they are also inebriated. It doesn't matter what the perpetrator thinks. And especially ? Is the perpetrator less guilty of rape depending on his blood alcoh…

> It doesn't matter what the perpetrator thinks.

I think it may be the only thing that can decide the difference between a crime here or not. If the other person gives consent, then how you judge their ability to make their own decisions here is the difference between having intent to rape or not having intent. Intent matters in a lot of crimes, I don't think it matters in rape cases - I could be wrong.

> Is the perpetrator less guilty of rape depending on his blood alcohol level?

So the victim has no responsibility if blood alcohol level is too high for good judgment, but the perpetrator is responsible no matter their blood alcohol level and judgment? That seems self-contradictory.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#288

Post by dbg31415 »

js2 wrote: post #113

Yes, of course she should have contacted law enforcement, but she was in a foreign country, intimated and young. And law enforcement still fails women: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/how-po... In an ideal world, the criminal justice system works. In the real world, it's a patchwork system that sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2019/09/17...…

It's not that I don't believe her. It's just such a slippery slope.

This is vigilantism -- the same as if you went out and shot a guy who stole your wallet.

We don't trust victims of crimes to dole out punishments. Justice is tempered by due process, checks and balances, proportional response, all that.

So I believe her, but I don't think the world is a better place when people use this approach to conflict resolution. I'd much rather see her go to court and get a conviction.

This is just revenge.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#289

Post by supercheetah »

epicureanideal wrote: post #240
jfengel wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that only a tiny percentage of harassers and rapists are ever convicted. The court -- rightly -- sets a very high bar to conviction, and police and prosecutors often won't even attempt it unless the evidence is overwhelming. You're concerned that this is stacked against you, but the courts are stacked against the victims. So it doesn't really suffice to decry the one problem without addressing the othe…

> the courts are stacked against the victims Ah, that pesky presumption of innocence getting in the way of our 100% conviction rate. /s

That wasn't being disputed. It does mean that, in the real world, a lot of victims will never see justice until there's overwhelming evidence, if ever.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#290

Post by klyrs »

jokethrowaway wrote: post #264
xahrepap wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A relative ran an online community. It was small, but not tiny There was some cyber-bullying (for lack of a better word) going on. My relative called law-enforcement, then was referred to the FBI. A case was filed and was told they would circle back on it to collect details. They never called back. My relative was never able to make contact with them about it again. Completely ignored. I can't remember the details, b…

Public law enforcement doesn't have any incentive doing anything. We need private police and a new legal system

Private police??? Like, uber but for swatting? No thank you
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