My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community • Hacker News Board

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#141

Post by baryphonic » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 9:49 PM UTC

JPKab wrote: post #59

908B64B197 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> heard from someone in HR that the charges were false, but "optics" were the reason they had to move forward with his termination. Time to name the company.

A massive company that makes overpriced, low-quality athletic products that double as status symbols, which they manufacture overseas (often using child labor) but then sell for massive markups in the US, Europe, etc. They have an extremely aggressive "woke" presence in their advertising, because as long as you care about social justice for your targeted customers, who cares that "people of color" in the developing w…

Sounds like your brother believed in something and sacrificed everything. If I were him, I might hire an employment lawyer and sue the shit out of them. Ya know, "Just do it."

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#142

Post by ryandrake » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 9:50 PM UTC

faitswulff wrote: post #48

eloff wrote: post #36

> I don’t remember how much I drank. I don’t remember him drinking. But I remember feeling uncomfortable when he made advances on me. I felt being taken advantage of that he had unprotected sex with me when I was intoxicated. Nothing felt right. I remember panicking and crying. I don't want to victim blame here because this guy sounds like a grade A creep and predator. But does a person not have some responsibility h…

Yes, you are victim blaming. Men aren’t wild bears, they’re human beings who should be held accountable for their actions. How drunk someone is around another human being has nothing to do with the perpetrator’s culpability.

Victim blaming or not, I think most parents wisely caution their children about alcohol, intoxication, and making good decisions about their own personal safety, when they reach the appropriate age. What parent doesn’t have that conversation with their teenage kid?

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#143

Post by bjarneh » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 9:50 PM UTC

JPKab wrote: post #27

Jon Pretty sounds like a complete creep and yes, based on this account, a predator. That being said, there is a court and criminal justice system for a reason. While I empathize with the author, and utterly despise the archetype of high-status men who use their status within programming communities as a tool to target women, I find the nature of these kinds of posts to be counterproductive. Therapeutic to the author?…

I agree with you about the accusations. He sounds creepy; but one blog-entry is not exactly hard evidence. An internet mob may assume its all true anyway.

> men who use their status within programming communities as a tool to target women

Wouldn't "programming communities" be one of the worst places for a true predator? There are so few women compared to men here. I would think most predators would choose the modeling or acting industry; where this type of behavior is almost expected...

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#144

Post by aphextron » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 9:50 PM UTC

_qwfv wrote: post #106

ALittleLight wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slightly later she writes "I maintained friendship with him for a few months after May, because I was convinced that it was all consensual". I think it is something of a philosophical issue to debate about whether you can think you consented and later determine you didn't. It's also strange to me that it takes months and consultation with a therapist to determine if you did or did not consent.

Have you ever been in an abusive relationship? Or seen one firsthand? People can be made to believe all sorts of things that aren't true by charismatic or powerful people. It may take them some time to realize they are being tricked or abused. You absolutely can be told you consented, and trust that person's word, and realize later that no, actually you had not. It's just convenient for the abuser for you to believe…

>You absolutely can be told you consented, and trust that person's word, and realize later that no, actually you had not. It's just convenient for the abuser for you to believe you had.

There has to be a line drawn somewhere when you start talking about hardcore felony level criminal accusations though. Should anyone who's ever had an (at the time) consensual intimate encounter then have cart blanche to hold accusations of rape over you for the rest of your life?

I mean just picture this guy's POV for a moment. You think you had a consensual relationship with someone, who then continued having friendly relations with you for months afterwards. Then out of nowhere you're being called a rapist on the internet. I get that the guy is a total creep. But it's absolutely terrifying to think that being in a crappy relationship can land you in prison now.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#145

Post by marcinzm » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 9:50 PM UTC

varjag wrote: post #126

marcinzm wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean the law enforcement in a foreign country that you are visiting for only a few days? The one that would require you to spend untold thousands of dollars, that you don't have, on flights if you had to testify in a court in a language that you do not fluently speak?

What do you do if you're mugged in a foreign country?

Generally count yourself lucky to be alive and then fly home in a few days.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#146

Post by ipaddr » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 9:50 PM UTC

Pfhreak wrote: post #46

mirekrusin wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know anything about it, but this starts to look a bit like public lynching.

Which part? The part where people are saying they've become aware of several independent, substantiated accusations against Pretty? The part where they state that sexual assault is unacceptable? The part where they demand that Pretty stop this behavior, and that communities put stronger code of conducts in place to specifically call out preying on/sexually assaulting members of that community as unacceptable? Refusin…

"We will not use or promote any software artifacts that are maintained by Mr. Pretty"

This part seems over the top. You go down this road and you end up in some foss hell. Later you find out someone who abused someone checked in code in linux. You can't use windows or a mac because of jobs and gates and you are back on a c64 until you realize what a bad person Jack was and you end up on OS/2.

I guess those who signed want to use an unmaintained version?

I get that people want to do something. Maybe conferences are not the best avenue for the community to meet safely. Providing gender safe housing would go a long way to having a more successful conference if successful means less rapes.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#147

Post by Sebb767 » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 9:50 PM UTC

andrewzah wrote: post #129

nicklecompte wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine a letter like this targeted at you one day, except unlike Mr. Pretty, you are innocent. “Imagine that you were convicted of murder but, unlike John Wayne Gacy, you were innocent.” Seriously what is the point of comments like this? False convictions are real and very very bad, but I know very few social justice advocates who are opposed to locking up serial killers. Likewise, the existence of unscrupulous pe…

Someone should coin a law for this phenomenon: Every single time a ~~woman~~ victim makes a public statement like this, in the comment sections a man must be discussing false accusations or the court of public opinion. I don't think I've ever not seen this. People who are abused are damned if they do, damned if they don't. edit: removed specific gender edit2: I'm not trying to be inflammatory here. This is a phenomen…

And people who are accused are damned, period. I can see why mob justice can sometimes be the only options for victims, but the abuse potential is massive.

By the way, I see no reason a woman or a trans person could not make this statement.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#148

Post by totony » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 9:51 PM UTC

indymike wrote: post #123

eloff wrote: post #36

> I don’t remember how much I drank. I don’t remember him drinking. But I remember feeling uncomfortable when he made advances on me. I felt being taken advantage of that he had unprotected sex with me when I was intoxicated. Nothing felt right. I remember panicking and crying. I don't want to victim blame here because this guy sounds like a grade A creep and predator. But does a person not have some responsibility h…

Would it be ok for the guy to get her drunk, then go to an ATM and talk her into emptying out a bank account?

Is it ok for bars to take advantage of drunk people so they spend frivolously (or alcoholics who throw away their paycheck every week?)

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#149

Post by noobermin » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 9:51 PM UTC

JPKab wrote: post #105

noobermin wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure what your brother faced is terrible but how exactly does this relate to the story?

Behavior like this should be punished within the framework of the civil and criminal court system. The court of public opinion has no rules as to the validity of evidence introduced, and relies on informal enforcement mechanisms as well, which are prone to abuse. The court of public opinion still thinks that the riots in Kenosha were justified (the actual courts heard and saw real evidence that determined that Mr. Bl…

You've listed a number of disparately connected recent news events and referred to some ominous "Court of Public Opinion" which has come to some perspective as if it somehow unites them. My point is you're drawing some thread and connecting this all to your brother. I'll echo again something I said in another reply, I'm not sure how analogous or connected these things are. It sounds mostly like your brother had his word against another accusation, and HR sided against him. Is HR now the "court of public opinion?" I thought that qualifies as due process in this case.

Again you're making some bigger point only you seem to be hearing but spell it out for me and for everyone else.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#150

Post by capableweb » Tue, Apr 27, 2021, 9:51 PM UTC

ummonk wrote: post #22

merb wrote: post #9

first, a small rant: tbf. I dislike the title. the real title is sexual harassment from Jon Pretty a leader of certain Scala Community standups. because the current title actually sounds like it's the whole commnity, but the blog is about a specific guy. --- second I really do not understand, how other people can be so horrible. he basically abused her in a moment where she was really really desperate and I think suc…

The community has allowed this guy to continue to be influential, so while the perpetrator is just one guy, it’s a community problem.

Relevant passages from the post

> In June, Heather noticed that I was upset at a dinner after ScalaDays. I shared with her about what happened. She warned me to stay away from Jon Pretty. And she wasn’t the only person who told me that.

> I have reported all of my experience to the ScalaCenter in 2019. I was hoping to see concrete actions, such as building a reporting mechanism, to protect minorities in the community. Unfortunately, I am not aware of such actions taken.