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My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community
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Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community
#102This is just downright disgusting, does somebody know if there have been consequences? I usually go to general or Go conferences and wonder if there is similiar stuff happening, but i have a good feeling since at least the go conferences alway emphasize inclusion. Lets hope this is true.
Everyone is migrating Scala projects as we speak. This has very little to do with Scala and everything to do with the darkside of the conference scene. Getting involved with conferences at the level she did introduces travel - drugs - drinking - partying with somewhat like minded young people. The culture at the top can be about money, stars and groupies but it revolves around power. Those in charge decide who speak.…
I must be going to the wrong conferences!
Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm sure what your brother faced is terrible but how exactly does this relate to the story?
its a reminder that mob justice is really terrible when it is wrong. we dont have all the facts. we should absolutely take precautions from this guy causing further harm, but the rape accusation needs to go thru the legal process including allowing the accused to defend themselves.
My point is that these are not that analogous. The linked account is one of many accusations against John Pretty. What the comment is referring to is an accusation that sounds like it's one person's word against another and primarily a conflict confined to one HR department. It isn't really "mob justice" then, it's HR siding with one party.
Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community
#104Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community
#105Jon Pretty sounds like a complete creep and yes, based on this account, a predator. That being said, there is a court and criminal justice system for a reason. While I empathize with the author, and utterly despise the archetype of high-status men who use their status within programming communities as a tool to target women, I find the nature of these kinds of posts to be counterproductive. Therapeutic to the author?…
I'm sure what your brother faced is terrible but how exactly does this relate to the story?
Behavior like this should be punished within the framework of the civil and criminal court system. The court of public opinion has no rules as to the validity of evidence introduced, and relies on informal enforcement mechanisms as well, which are prone to abuse.
The court of public opinion still thinks that the riots in Kenosha were justified (the actual courts heard and saw real evidence that determined that Mr. Blake was indeed sexually assualting his ex and was indeed reaching for a knife when he was shot). The court of public opinion thought that the invasion of Iraq in 2003 was justified because they thought Saddam helped OBL. The recent case of the teenage girl shot in Columbus featured the Court of Public Opinion weighing in that the girl should have been allowed to stab the other girl pinned against that car, and the cop should have "shot her in the leg", which any expert on use of force would immediately explain would not have worked. Why? Because the public as a whole is filled with smart individuals, but an an aggregate level are a bunch of moronic lemmings, like all large groups of people are.
Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sex was had while she did not consent, she mentions in the fifth paragraph.
Slightly later she writes "I maintained friendship with him for a few months after May, because I was convinced that it was all consensual". I think it is something of a philosophical issue to debate about whether you can think you consented and later determine you didn't. It's also strange to me that it takes months and consultation with a therapist to determine if you did or did not consent.
Have you ever been in an abusive relationship? Or seen one firsthand? People can be made to believe all sorts of things that aren't true by charismatic or powerful people. It may take them some time to realize they are being tricked or abused.
You absolutely can be told you consented, and trust that person's word, and realize later that no, actually you had not. It's just convenient for the abuser for you to believe you had.
Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community
#107The "share an AirBnB to be able to afford the conference" part seems particularly damning to me. That seems entirely premeditated and predatory.
To me it sounds generous and possibly completely harmless.
My experience with conferences is in a different field, but a senior participant proposing to share an AirBnB with a junior participant like a student would be extremely weird.
If you want to support the student, you either organize another student for them to share accomodations, or connect them to one of the travel grants for that conference.
Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community
#108> I don’t remember how much I drank. I don’t remember him drinking. But I remember feeling uncomfortable when he made advances on me. I felt being taken advantage of that he had unprotected sex with me when I was intoxicated. Nothing felt right. I remember panicking and crying. I don't want to victim blame here because this guy sounds like a grade A creep and predator. But does a person not have some responsibility h…
Responsibility is the wrong word. There is a difference between good advice and victim blaming. Just because the victim was careless doesn't make them in any form responsible for the crime. Nevertheless, I would certainly advise my daughter against getting drunk in such a situation.
Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community
#109Jon Pretty sounds like a complete creep and yes, based on this account, a predator. That being said, there is a court and criminal justice system for a reason. While I empathize with the author, and utterly despise the archetype of high-status men who use their status within programming communities as a tool to target women, I find the nature of these kinds of posts to be counterproductive. Therapeutic to the author?…
I don't like this court-of-public-opinion stuff much either and the abuse potential is real. At the same time: what else are people going to do? There seems to be no other recourse. Most people let bullies get away with it because even stepping in as a third party means standing up to a bully. It can be scary, but even if there's no real risk it's still a fucking pain in the ass. Who wants to get into a mud slinging…
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Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community
#110> I don’t remember how much I drank. I don’t remember him drinking. But I remember feeling uncomfortable when he made advances on me. I felt being taken advantage of that he had unprotected sex with me when I was intoxicated. Nothing felt right. I remember panicking and crying. I don't want to victim blame here because this guy sounds like a grade A creep and predator. But does a person not have some responsibility h…
>I don't want to victim blame here because this guy sounds like a grade A creep and predator. But does a person not have some responsibility here to not get so intoxicated when alone with a member of the opposite sex in a private space?
No. The idea that being around a member of the opposite sex (and does this apply to members of the same sex? e.g. men raping men, and women raping women?) in a private space while being intoxicated levies some kind of 'responsibility' to be on the lookout for rape is absolutely victim blaming. It's insisting that her non-sexual actions of literally just being around someone confers a responsibility of any kind pertaining to a sexual act on her.