Why don't rich people do more awesome things? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why don't rich people do more awesome things?

#81

Post by anamax » Sat, Jun 25, 2011, 3:52 PM UTC

true_religion wrote: post #66

thaumaturgy wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not an investment company that invested in startups and small businesses by pooling the resources of Joe Traders? I would assume that, since much of the smart money right now seems to be in startups, the return can't be all that bad, and you'd have a shot at leveraging three different groups in such a way as to improve all their lives, which would be a neat trick all on its own.

Many companies provide matching funds for retirement accounts, but don't allow you much say in where you invest. You can be given a basket of stocks and told to pick, or told which fund managers you're allowed to use. That aside, individual investors usually like their current funds and are loathe to leave them just for something that promises better results. -- What I envision is a site that simplifies the current t…

> Many companies provide matching funds for retirement accounts, but don't allow you much say in where you invest. You can be given a basket of stocks and told to pick, or told which fund managers you're allowed to use.

You do realize that the 2nd sentence isn't necessarily supporting evidence for the first, that the basket and the funds matter.

Regardless, the big 401(k) providers already have advice services. (Schwab's is provided by a 3rd party.) And, independent financial advisors will take your company's list and generate a plan. (such as ricedelman.com .)

Yes, I realize that there are employers who don't use such providers or won't pay for the advisor service, but how can your service address that problem?

Re: Why don't rich people do more awesome things?

#82

Post by anamax » Sat, Jun 25, 2011, 3:55 PM UTC

true_religion wrote: post #66

thaumaturgy wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not an investment company that invested in startups and small businesses by pooling the resources of Joe Traders? I would assume that, since much of the smart money right now seems to be in startups, the return can't be all that bad, and you'd have a shot at leveraging three different groups in such a way as to improve all their lives, which would be a neat trick all on its own.

Many companies provide matching funds for retirement accounts, but don't allow you much say in where you invest. You can be given a basket of stocks and told to pick, or told which fund managers you're allowed to use. That aside, individual investors usually like their current funds and are loathe to leave them just for something that promises better results. -- What I envision is a site that simplifies the current t…

> don't pick A because seasonal trends dictate they always fall 8% in June

I don't believe that such a stock exists.

Re: Why don't rich people do more awesome things?

#83

Post by anamax » Sat, Jun 25, 2011, 4:01 PM UTC

thaumaturgy wrote: post #64

Tichy wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are happy, who am I to argue with that. Maybe you just really like your landlord. "living in it now a world in which everyone else did things like this -- looked out for each-other, helped each-other up, cleaned up and improved the things around them, and invested in great little bistros and sandwich shops and bookstores and parks and such because they recognized the value of having such things in their commun…

I want to finish this conversation with just one point, which I'll try to make as clearly as possible. I started this thread with a post that included the question, "Why don't more poor people clean up their neighborhoods?" I was being rhetorical, but your comments here are a fine example of one of the reasons why they don't: lack of a sense of ownership. Let's set aside for a moment all of the other factors into why…

> In Bob's neighborhood, none of the houses are freshly painted, because it's in nobody's best personal interest to do it, because they don't own the places. None of the yards are weeded or landscaped, the plumbing leaks, and the wiring is hazardous. Bob commits as little of his own resources to his house, because it doesn't belong to him.

> But, I question that system. I think, if Bob weren't a rational actor

The above tells us more about your definition of "rational" than anything else. You're envy driven.

The guy above defines "rational" differently - he's greed driven. He fixes up the place that he rents because of the value that he gets.

IMHO, you're too concerned about what someone else gets. You don't even see how anyone else can think differently, hence your label "rational".

Envy is the stupid sin. It's the only sin that doesn't get you anything.

Re: Why don't rich people do more awesome things?

#84

Post by thaumaturgy » Sat, Jun 25, 2011, 5:18 PM UTC

Tichy wrote: post #68

thaumaturgy wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to finish this conversation with just one point, which I'll try to make as clearly as possible. I started this thread with a post that included the question, "Why don't more poor people clean up their neighborhoods?" I was being rhetorical, but your comments here are a fine example of one of the reasons why they don't: lack of a sense of ownership. Let's set aside for a moment all of the other factors into why…

I hope it is clear that I don't mean to attack you, I am just trying to understand. We seem to agree that sense of ownership is the problem - and to me it is real, as those poor people really don't own the place they live in. You are right that there could be a problem with people staying poor indefinitely and things only getting worse over time. On the other hand, maybe the problem isn't "how can poor people live in…

> I hope it is clear that I don't mean to attack you, I am just trying to understand.

I didn't feel attacked at all. :-) Thanks for the conversation.

Re: Why don't rich people do more awesome things?

#85

Post by nostrademons » Sat, Jun 25, 2011, 5:43 PM UTC

Confusion wrote: post #67

nostrademons wrote: post #60

Random off-topic response to one of your throwaway comments: "Buying a car or a house in cash is showoff-y" When did buying a car in cash become showoff-y? My parents and grandparents always paid cash for their cars, because it's a depreciating asset and taking out a loan for it is just throwing money away. I didn't buy a car until I could afford it in cash - and when I did, that's when I realized this wasn't terribl…

Well, does 'cash' mean physical cash or does it mean 'not on credit'? You're assuming the latter, but that doesn't make any sense, because buying on credit is effectively buying for more 'cash', just spread over some time (taking net values of later amounts into account of course). So I assume it means the former.

Means "not on credit". And I don't see why that doesn't make sense, because if buying on credit = buying for more 'cash', why would you want to pay more for the car?

Re: Why don't rich people do more awesome things?

#86

Post by nostrademons » Sat, Jun 25, 2011, 5:45 PM UTC

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #70

nostrademons wrote: post #60

Random off-topic response to one of your throwaway comments: "Buying a car or a house in cash is showoff-y" When did buying a car in cash become showoff-y? My parents and grandparents always paid cash for their cars, because it's a depreciating asset and taking out a loan for it is just throwing money away. I didn't buy a car until I could afford it in cash - and when I did, that's when I realized this wasn't terribl…

That's when you take out the loan, get all the discounts, and pay it off the next month!

I thought about doing that, but the "discounts" are usually things like 0% financing for X amount of time or "we'll waive the financing charge", which means that if you take them, you are in exactly the same place as if you'd bought for cash in the first place, you just have to remember to pay off the loan early.

Re: Why don't rich people do more awesome things?

#87

Post by nostrademons » Sat, Jun 25, 2011, 5:51 PM UTC

maigret wrote: post #77

steveh73 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think buying a car on credit may be an American thing - at least I don't know of anyone who has bought a car on credit. It seems like an absurd waste of money to do so - why not just buy a secondhand car you can afford outright?

Because often interests on car credits are lower than the inflation, and maintenance costs on second hand are very hard to foresee.

Interest on car loan is still higher than any investment I can think of with equivalent risk characteristics. 3-year treasuries are currently yielding about 0.75%, 3-year car loans are about 3-4% on a quick Google search. I don't see how you could arbitrage that into a profit.

Also, paying off (non-tax-deductible) loans essentially buys you after tax dollars, while investments must be bought with pre tax dollars (though some are capital gains taxes if you hold them long enough). That's an additional 15-40% you have to chop off the return rates of investments when comparing them to paying off debt.

Re: Why don't rich people do more awesome things?

#88

Post by zavulon » Sat, Jun 25, 2011, 6:27 PM UTC

JeffffreyF wrote: post #47

zavulon wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Intentions for good deeds should not count - those are private and for your own use only. What should matter is things that you say or do, not think.

Make no mistake, you are only judged by your true intentions. People,and life, is imperfect and endlessly flawed, what was intended is really all you have in the end, all that really matters to the truth. Yes, results change circumstances and end pain, but the true measure of a man remains his thoughts. Not his wallet, or his treasures or his effect on his environment. What he is inside is what he would be with the p…

Judged by whom? If you're talking about self-judgement, and judgement by G-d, then I fully agree. But as far as people judging other people - I think only actions and to a lesser degree words should count, because we never truly know other people's intentions.

Re: Why don't rich people do more awesome things?

#89

Post by gnosis » Sat, Jun 25, 2011, 7:39 PM UTC

anamax wrote: post #83

thaumaturgy wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to finish this conversation with just one point, which I'll try to make as clearly as possible. I started this thread with a post that included the question, "Why don't more poor people clean up their neighborhoods?" I was being rhetorical, but your comments here are a fine example of one of the reasons why they don't: lack of a sense of ownership. Let's set aside for a moment all of the other factors into why…

> In Bob's neighborhood, none of the houses are freshly painted, because it's in nobody's best personal interest to do it, because they don't own the places. None of the yards are weeded or landscaped, the plumbing leaks, and the wiring is hazardous. Bob commits as little of his own resources to his house, because it doesn't belong to him. > But, I question that system. I think, if Bob weren't a rational actor The ab…

Envy driven? It sounds to me like he's driven by altruism and a simple desire to make the place he lives more pleasant.

I really don't know where you got envy from.

Re: Why don't rich people do more awesome things?

#90

Post by gnosis » Sat, Jun 25, 2011, 7:54 PM UTC

sliverstorm wrote: post #29

It is difficult to be rich and do more awesome things, at least of the type that requires a lot of cash. There's only two ways to grow your wealth- make a lot of money, or don't spend any money- and you need to practice both ways heavily to actually be rich. Ergo, there are potentially plenty of people who do awesome things with lots of cash- but they are not rich anymore, so "rich people don't do awesome things".

There are and have been plenty of people who've done great things with their money.

They're called philanthropists.