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The Origins of the Wirecard Scandal

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Re: The Origins of the Wirecard Scandal

#81

Post by Mandatum »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #75
Mandatum wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New Zealand and Australia aren't good choices. Rich and poor gap is growing faster than ever, legislation is regressing, housing and living costs are going up - wages are stagnating.

What you just said literally applies to every European(world?) country. There is no single country here where wages have increased faster than real-estate/cost of living and where the rich aren't getting richer while everyone else is stagnating at best. It's a side effect of globalization and our current version of capitalism supported by (intentional) poorly designed economic policies that enable this wealth gap to…

How do we fix it?

Re: The Origins of the Wirecard Scandal

#82

Post by allendoerfer »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #80
allendoerfer wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> then the exploitation of foreign workers during the "economic wonder" time after the war. Until now things didn't change much. I am not argueing that there is not abuse. But to force this narrative, you have to be already behind the "border wall" and therefor rich enough to be either nationalist ("no immigration!") or very naive ("just give them money!"). Either way in my mind you are putting yourself above the poo…

> people working in Germany are effectively extracting money from Germany to Poland WTF?! How are Poles working in Germany effectively extracting money from Germany? They pay income taxes in Germany like everyone else. They are then free to do with their NET income what they please. There is no obligation to spend your after-tax income in the same country.

People living in Poland (for the most part), but working in Germany ARE moving money to Poland. I am not angry about this. The same happens at the Swiss border with Germans. Everyone benefits, living conditions equalize, trade increases, everyone gets richer.

Re: The Origins of the Wirecard Scandal

#83

Post by hiq »

lnsru wrote: post #65
Thomasmack wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Germany will continue slowly declining with whole Europe. I agree and this is really sad. Thinking of migrating because I plan to have a family and want them to grow up in the best environment. Which countries you guys think will be the best bet?

Switzerland, maybe Norway, maybe Iceland. Singapore? New Zealand or Australia? You must decide. Nordic countries are too cold for me. Swiss salaries for engineers weren’t that different from my German salary. The others too far. I settled down between Munich and Alps. I love nature and still can reach Munich in 40 minutes if needed.

> Swiss salaries for engineers weren’t that different from my German salary.

Don't you (and your company) pay way more taxes in Germany than in Switzerland?

I've never applied to Munich positions but everything I've read point to a significant gap between Zürich and Munich in software engineering, even before taxes. But maybe that's only valid for software engineering and not so relevant for other engineering fields?

Re: The Origins of the Wirecard Scandal

#84

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

allendoerfer wrote: post #82
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people working in Germany are effectively extracting money from Germany to Poland WTF?! How are Poles working in Germany effectively extracting money from Germany? They pay income taxes in Germany like everyone else. They are then free to do with their NET income what they please. There is no obligation to spend your after-tax income in the same country.

People living in Poland (for the most part), but working in Germany ARE moving money to Poland. I am not angry about this. The same happens at the Swiss border with Germans. Everyone benefits, living conditions equalize, trade increases, everyone gets richer.

>People living in Poland ... but working in Germany

People living in Poland and working in Germany are either commuters or remote workers, not immigrants like you mentioned in your post above to which I replied: ["Poland (one of the sources of immigration)"].

And they're not extracting money from Germany, they are earning it fairly and legally.

Re: The Origins of the Wirecard Scandal

#85

Post by Glawen »

Thomasmack wrote: post #56
lnsru wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So many wishful thinking. I bet there will be no changes after election. Why should it be? Germany will continue slowly declining with whole Europe. This pandemic management was/is real shitshow. The universities are other funny thing. They have no future with heavily underpaid staff and work contracts for 6-12 month working contracts. Max Planck and Fraunhofer are sweatshops for industrial partners. They do the task…

> Germany will continue slowly declining with whole Europe. I agree and this is really sad. Thinking of migrating because I plan to have a family and want them to grow up in the best environment. Which countries you guys think will be the best bet?

I disagree, Overall I find that Germany really strikes a good balance. Nice social security net, nice salaries, very low criminality, free school and universities, nice public transport. What else do you need to have a family? Real estate is indeed a bit on the expensive side, but it is the same situation everywhere else.

Yes you feel a decline because of the aging population and low business growth. I agree that a developing country will be more vibrant and you will feel more alive, but you will have to deal with a shit tons of other issues that are non existant in Germany.

Re: The Origins of the Wirecard Scandal

#86

Post by tut-urut-utut »

allendoerfer wrote: post #79
tut-urut-utut wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not pump some billions in local unskilled wages and stricter enforcement of regulations so that foreign workers won't have to get exploited by unscrupulous German businesses?[1] That would be for an actual good reason IMHO. Modern German economy is practically built on exploitation of foreign workers. First there was a slave labour during the WW2, then the exploitation of foreign workers during the "economic wo…

> then the exploitation of foreign workers during the "economic wonder" time after the war. Until now things didn't change much. I am not argueing that there is not abuse. But to force this narrative, you have to be already behind the "border wall" and therefor rich enough to be either nationalist ("no immigration!") or very naive ("just give them money!"). Either way in my mind you are putting yourself above the poo…

> Either way in my mind you are putting yourself above the poor little people, who are in such misery. You do not think they are trying to do what's best for them? They are responsible for their own fortune and many of their children actually make it.

I don't understand that logic. I am not putting myself above anyone, just stating a fact. And the fact is that a was majority of immigrants are indeed doing their best and trying to make it, but they have neither the same starting point nor the same chance like locals. They had it harder at every step, in school someone called Mahmet get on overage 1/2 lower note in German than Max, given the same performance immigrant children are less likely to get recommendation for Gymnasium. Someon with foreign name will have more issues searching for an apartment to rent, get less invitations for a job interview, and even be paid less for the same job, where we will hit the glass ceiling and not be promoted above a certain level.

Don't get me wrong, this is not specific to Germany, and this is not a simple issue, but let's not pretend that it doesn't exist. Yes, many people make it, but not because Germany is so egalitarian society, but despite all those issues.

Re: The Origins of the Wirecard Scandal

#87

Post by spdionis »

hutzlibu wrote: post #69
allendoerfer wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Germany will continue slowly declining with whole Europe. If what's currently happening to Germany (uninterrupted boom since > 10 years) is decline, then let there be more of it. It's great, that you are living in the moment, but I take a step back once in a while. The other side of the fence is probably not greener. Germany is by no means perfect. Administration is a shit-show. But stuff is indeed improving (very…

"Administration is a shit-show." It is. But ... there are probably not many countries with better administration.

If german administration is a shit-show then administration is a shit-show everywhere. There are always people who will say "the 'administration' should know better!!!".

People have too high standards for leaders. They are also human.

Re: The Origins of the Wirecard Scandal

#88

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

allendoerfer wrote: post #48
lnsru wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real estate prices tripled or even quadrupled during last 10 years while salaries haven’t changed a lot. The rents in the cities are not really affordable anymore. Look at the problems in Berlin when the city tried to control the rental prices and failed.

Compare Berlin rents to any European capital. Man, reading all those replies, Germans do live in a bubble and do not know how privileged they are. Take a step back, look at London, realize how good you have it, just rent an apartment instead of buying one, put your money in the stock market and wait for the population to decline and the bubble to burst.

>Compare Berlin rents to any European capital.

Just resorting to whataboutism at every step doesn't magically make rents in Germany cheaper more easy to obtain for those in Germany.

The fact that Parisians or Londoners or Tokyans(is that even a word?) have expensive rents doesn't help me when I live in Germany since they're completely different markets and I only compete in my local market, not with those in Paris/London/Tokyo.

Re: The Origins of the Wirecard Scandal

#89

Post by MrEuribor »

I think the article touches on a broader problem with European approach to finance, innovation, and competition in the globalized economy (to be clear, I say that as a European). It is hard for anyone living here not to notice that the continent is slowly falling behind and becoming more provincial in many ways. This leads to some defensive and delusional attitudes, often presented on this forum ("we may underperform economically but that's okay because quality of life here is better and we don't have all the shootings and inequality" or "it is better to have stable low growth than excessive speculation-driven growth"). This mentality is especially striking when applied to the field of finance - which is associated with greedy ruthless US-style capitalism. There is a certain pride in the fact that financial markets in Europe are fragmented, over-regulated and underdeveloped. Nobody seems to recognize that despite all their flaws US markets are much more transparent and less corrupt. I have participated in discussions where people debated Gamestop saga, concluding that thankfully in Europe it would not be possible because we "protect retail investors" here and don't allow payment for order flow. The fact that European retail investors get a terrible deal, with inflated costs to access the market, lack of choice, and mediocre returns, did not seem to bother anybody. Almost everyone I know prefers to invest in US stocks, through US brokers with local subsidiaries. The precious few recent attractive European companies that I know of all got listed in New York. Wirecard case really is symptomatic. To run a global innovative business in Europe you cannot cut corners and bend the rules Uber-style; EU regulations "protect" us from that kind of enterpreneur. The only way is for the business to be an outright fraud.

Re: The Origins of the Wirecard Scandal

#90

Post by Hello71 »

hutzlibu wrote: post #68
FabHK wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh come on, there is amazing progress in Germany on digitalisation and hi-tech. The government of Upper Frankonia is now switching from 4-digit fax numbers to 5-digit fax numbers! https://www.regierung.oberfranken.bayern.de/presse/pressemit...

Sigh. Satirical jokes don't work anymore, when reality is more ridiculous than anything you can imagine. (oh and fitting, their government website does not seem to use a valid certificate )

ssllabs is happy with it, seems like you are missing ISRG Root X1 and refuse to download intermediaries.

https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=www.regierung...

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