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The Origins of the Wirecard Scandal

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Re: The Origins of the Wirecard Scandal

#71

Post by allendoerfer »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #59
volta83 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fine, but can we please stop pushing this cherry picked cliche narrative of "US bad because healthcare, shootings and tap water."? Are you saying those aren't issues? Because I've lived in the US, and know many Europeans that have lived there or traveled there on holidays, and pretty much all of them agree that: - the first time in their lives they were afraid of getting ill was when they started living in the US -…

>Your argument that "the US has no issues because Europe has issues" is typically known as "whataboutism". Sorry, but wasn't grandparent's (u/allendoerfer) original post the one that started the whataboutism? I was just contradicting him with a mirrored whataboutism to prove why his way of thinking is wrong? Why are you only cherry picking mine? The topic was regarding one of Germany's failure, and Grandparent (u/all…

I wasn't even (only) refering to the US. I was trying to bring accross, that it's quite nice to live in Germany and that it does not need to be dominant or proud of anything as a nation. I was trying to list benefits Germans take as a given, but are actually not available everywhere in the world (which has almost 200 countries btw, not only US + Germany). As far as I know, US also has breathable air and is somewhat save in most places. It's just that the unsafest place in Germany is probably still safer than almost everywhere else in the world. The basics are okay in Germany and they matter, even if you don't think about them day to day. If you want more, go on and build it, nobody forbids you to do so. Society just provides a nice baseline and even tries to catch you, in case you fall.

Re: The Origins of the Wirecard Scandal

#72

Post by Mandatum »

lnsru wrote: post #65
Thomasmack wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Germany will continue slowly declining with whole Europe. I agree and this is really sad. Thinking of migrating because I plan to have a family and want them to grow up in the best environment. Which countries you guys think will be the best bet?

Switzerland, maybe Norway, maybe Iceland. Singapore? New Zealand or Australia? You must decide. Nordic countries are too cold for me. Swiss salaries for engineers weren’t that different from my German salary. The others too far. I settled down between Munich and Alps. I love nature and still can reach Munich in 40 minutes if needed.

New Zealand and Australia aren't good choices. Rich and poor gap is growing faster than ever, legislation is regressing, housing and living costs are going up - wages are stagnating.

Re: The Origins of the Wirecard Scandal

#73

Post by tut-urut-utut »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #25
allendoerfer wrote: post #14

There are federal elections in September in Germany. CDU just fell behind the Green Party in recent polls and SPD (whose Olaf Scholz ultimatively was in charge of BaFin) is a shadow of it's former self anyway. I do not think the everything will turn for the better, but I am hopeful that some actions will be taken. The political style of Merkel - and Germany as a whole for that matter - of a steady hand and waiting fo…

>I take a socially relatively cohesive country, where an illness or going to university will not bankrupt you, where your kids can travel alone in public transportation, where police shootings per year are single digits, where the air is very breathable and the tap water is drinkable over world leadership any time You're obviously entitled to your oppinion, but can we please stop pushing this cherry picked cliché nar…

> Why not pump some billions in local unskilled wages and stricter enforcement of regulations so that foreign workers won't have to get exploited by unscrupulous German businesses?[1] That would be for an actual good reason IMHO.

Modern German economy is practically built on exploitation of foreign workers. First there was a slave labour during the WW2, then the exploitation of foreign workers during the "economic wonder" time after the war. Until now things didn't change much.

Re: The Origins of the Wirecard Scandal

#74

Post by ivanche »

durnygbur wrote: post #51
allendoerfer wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compare Berlin rents to any European capital. Man, reading all those replies, Germans do live in a bubble and do not know how privileged they are. Take a step back, look at London, realize how good you have it, just rent an apartment instead of buying one, put your money in the stock market and wait for the population to decline and the bubble to burst.

The difficult part in renting is compiling the documentation and to get accepted as a tenant. The dividend and capital gains taxes of 26.4% efficiently cool down unexperienced individual investors. The last 10 years have basically invalidated the possibility of buying housing for any individual on employment contract. Before anything will pop within next 10 years, German boomers will be chocking the remaining populat…

It's true that the capital gains taxes are really high. But there are at least some exempts: 1) first 801€ for an individual or 1602€ for a couple are tax free (every year); 2) if you invest in ETFs that invest primarily in stocks first 30% of capital gains are tax free

Re: The Origins of the Wirecard Scandal

#75

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

Mandatum wrote: post #72
lnsru wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switzerland, maybe Norway, maybe Iceland. Singapore? New Zealand or Australia? You must decide. Nordic countries are too cold for me. Swiss salaries for engineers weren’t that different from my German salary. The others too far. I settled down between Munich and Alps. I love nature and still can reach Munich in 40 minutes if needed.

New Zealand and Australia aren't good choices. Rich and poor gap is growing faster than ever, legislation is regressing, housing and living costs are going up - wages are stagnating.

What you just said literally applies to every European(world?) country.

There is no single country here where wages have increased faster than real-estate/cost of living and where the rich aren't getting richer while everyone else is stagnating at best.

It's a side effect of globalization and our current version of capitalism supported by (intentional) poorly designed economic policies that enable this wealth gap to grow ever larger.

Re: The Origins of the Wirecard Scandal

#76

Post by allendoerfer »

ivanche wrote: post #74
durnygbur wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difficult part in renting is compiling the documentation and to get accepted as a tenant. The dividend and capital gains taxes of 26.4% efficiently cool down unexperienced individual investors. The last 10 years have basically invalidated the possibility of buying housing for any individual on employment contract. Before anything will pop within next 10 years, German boomers will be chocking the remaining populat…

It's true that the capital gains taxes are really high. But there are at least some exempts: 1) first 801€ for an individual or 1602€ for a couple are tax free (every year); 2) if you invest in ETFs that invest primarily in stocks first 30% of capital gains are tax free

> 2) if you invest in ETFs that invest primarily in stocks first 30% of capital gains are tax free

Citation needed.

I would argue the point is actuallly the opposite: Capital gains taxes are actually lower than income taxes on your salary. Properties do have an unfair advantage, though, because they can be sold tax free after 10 years.

We do need something like a 401k. But if you read the election manifestos of different parties for September, they are indeed in there.

Re: The Origins of the Wirecard Scandal

#78

Post by Glawen »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #57

What got me about German business, as a Kiwi working with Germans, was a few things: 1) How cosy everyone in a given sphere is with each other 2) The nearly inevitable strip-club and coke in relationship building 3) The prevalence of kick-backs in contracts, although obviously euphemistically renamed. 4) How Germans accepted corruption as part of life 5) How they were proud that their corruption still got things buil…

I never experienced corruption in Germany, people have always been very honest. However I don't navigate in the business sphere.

I did notice strange things which suggest corruption, like constantly rebuilding perfect roads, every time by the same companies but of course I got no proof.

Re: The Origins of the Wirecard Scandal

#79

Post by allendoerfer »

tut-urut-utut wrote: post #73
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I take a socially relatively cohesive country, where an illness or going to university will not bankrupt you, where your kids can travel alone in public transportation, where police shootings per year are single digits, where the air is very breathable and the tap water is drinkable over world leadership any time You're obviously entitled to your oppinion, but can we please stop pushing this cherry picked cliché nar…

> Why not pump some billions in local unskilled wages and stricter enforcement of regulations so that foreign workers won't have to get exploited by unscrupulous German businesses?[1] That would be for an actual good reason IMHO. Modern German economy is practically built on exploitation of foreign workers. First there was a slave labour during the WW2, then the exploitation of foreign workers during the "economic wo…

> then the exploitation of foreign workers during the "economic wonder" time after the war. Until now things didn't change much.

I am not argueing that there is not abuse. But to force this narrative, you have to be already behind the "border wall" and therefor rich enough to be either nationalist ("no immigration!") or very naive ("just give them money!"). Either way in my mind you are putting yourself above the poor little people, who are in such misery. You do not think they are trying to do what's best for them? They are responsible for their own fortune and many of their children actually make it.

Look at what is happening to Poland (one of the sources of immigration). Germany actively sends money there (through the EU), people working in Germany are effectively extracting money from Germany to Poland and the economy is growing like crazy (for European standards). Everyone benefits.

Re: The Origins of the Wirecard Scandal

#80

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

allendoerfer wrote: post #79
tut-urut-utut wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not pump some billions in local unskilled wages and stricter enforcement of regulations so that foreign workers won't have to get exploited by unscrupulous German businesses?[1] That would be for an actual good reason IMHO. Modern German economy is practically built on exploitation of foreign workers. First there was a slave labour during the WW2, then the exploitation of foreign workers during the "economic wo…

> then the exploitation of foreign workers during the "economic wonder" time after the war. Until now things didn't change much. I am not argueing that there is not abuse. But to force this narrative, you have to be already behind the "border wall" and therefor rich enough to be either nationalist ("no immigration!") or very naive ("just give them money!"). Either way in my mind you are putting yourself above the poo…

> people working in Germany are effectively extracting money from Germany to Poland

WTF?! How are Poles working in Germany effectively extracting money from Germany?

They pay income taxes in Germany like everyone else. They are then free to do with their NET income what they please.

There is no obligation to spend your after-tax income in the same country.

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