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Tesla Q1 2021 Results

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Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#391

Post by volta83 »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #383
volta83 wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the European market the range advantage might not be a big deal, It wouldn't be a big deal if charging time was I do occasionally (once per month or two months) go somewhere that's 800km away. Driving at 180-200km/h avg speed and refueling once that's a 5 hour trip. If I have to drive at 120 km/h and charge multiple times I'm looking at > 8h trip or more. I also drive to some places at 300km distance or so for t…

You may or may not be exaggerating but if you aren't then you are definitely an outlier. Which kind of sucks for you because it's going to be hard to keep doing this when the rest of the world has moved on.

Outlier in which sense ?

There is a lot of people from southern Europe and northern africa (morroco, algeria, etc.) living in central Europe (France, Belgium, Holland, Germany, Switzerland, etc.). There is a lot of people from East Europe (Poland, Ukraine, Czec republic, Croatia, Turkey) living in Central Europe as well.

How do you think these people travel to visit their families every couple of months ? They do 1000km per way trips with the car.

If you just have to cross Germany, you are not going to be driving there at 100km/h. I do 600-800km ways in Germany a couple of times per year, and do drive 220km/h everywhere where it is allowed and condition are good. Your average speed is never that cause traffic and so on, but over 190km/h average speed is doable if you travel at the right hours which I always do because... you don't want to spend 800km stuck on traffic.

Why not flying? Because while central europe has good airports, wherever they might be flying to might have an airport 3 hours away, requiring them to rent a car, etc. which as mentioned costs one month of net salary.

In Germany, for example, ~50% of the population rents. As a renter, its up to your landlord to retrofit your parking spot with an electric supply for your electric car. That costs money, and if the landlord says no, you can't do this yourself. Is not up to you.

Electric cars are more a "social problem" in europe than a technical one.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#392

Post by stkdump »

emptyfile wrote: post #372
Angostura wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think even in the European market it may be a factor. It's not uncommon to drive somewhere on summer holidays, I'm in the UK and sometimes drive across France or down to Spain for summer hols - or skiing holidays. It's stupid that this is a consideration when buying a car, I know. But it certainly has a chilling effect when I think about our over-night drives to get to the Alps for a Saturday morning.

Why is it stupid? If anything Europeans would be more sensitive to delays in their trip because of charge issues. If you're going on a weekend getaway then the difference between 4-6 hours of driving and 8-10 is huge. I live in Croatia and have dark memories of standing in front of gas stations on the highway in the summer and waiting for +30 minutes in the heat to do 3 minutes of gas pumping. I wonder what sort of p…

Because for exceptional peak usage you could also just rent a car, and then optimize your car choice for the day-to-day usage. Driving a smaller battery around takes less energy, so it is cheaper to buy and cheaper to drive.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#393

Post by kozak »

iso1631 wrote: post #281
sharken wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europe there is still too few charging facilities. Basically an EV only makes sense if you own a house and can get your own charger. The V2 supercharger still needs around 20 minutes for an 80% charge, while the new BMW iX3 needs around 30 minutes for 80%. The Tesla V3 supercharger is promising, but the killer feature will be a unified charging platform and not one for each car maker.

> Basically an EV only makes sense if you own a house and can get your own charger. New houses in the UK have required chargers as part of planning permission for 5 years. Most people have, or can have, a 3KW socket installed in their driveway, very cheaply (like 2-3 tanks of fuel) 73% of cars in the UK are parked on private property overnight. Most cars do under 8,000 miles a year, or 160 miles a week, 77% of cars p…

When you say "in their driveway", you are already excluding everyone who doesn't have a driveway. I can recall maybe two or three people I know who have their own driveways.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#394

Post by [deleted] »

volta83 wrote: post #391
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may or may not be exaggerating but if you aren't then you are definitely an outlier. Which kind of sucks for you because it's going to be hard to keep doing this when the rest of the world has moved on.

Outlier in which sense ? There is a lot of people from southern Europe and northern africa (morroco, algeria, etc.) living in central Europe (France, Belgium, Holland, Germany, Switzerland, etc.). There is a lot of people from East Europe (Poland, Ukraine, Czec republic, Croatia, Turkey) living in Central Europe as well. How do you think these people travel to visit their families every couple of months ? They do 100…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#395

Post by yuribro »

kozak wrote: post #393
iso1631 wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Basically an EV only makes sense if you own a house and can get your own charger. New houses in the UK have required chargers as part of planning permission for 5 years. Most people have, or can have, a 3KW socket installed in their driveway, very cheaply (like 2-3 tanks of fuel) 73% of cars in the UK are parked on private property overnight. Most cars do under 8,000 miles a year, or 160 miles a week, 77% of cars p…

When you say "in their driveway", you are already excluding everyone who doesn't have a driveway. I can recall maybe two or three people I know who have their own driveways.

If the GP's statistics are correct, how does your anecdote changes anything? More than 70% of all car owners is a very viable market.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#396

Post by stkdump »

volta83 wrote: post #378
iainmerrick wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buy an electric car for everyday stuff, hire a car for holidays?

That's not really a thing in Europe. Renting a big nice car for a 1 week holiday (so ~10 days) sets' you back 1000$, which is a bit over the average net monthly income over here. You can rent a small shitty car for much less, but then you might as well just use your own car. If money is not an issue, renting a car, picking it up, etc. is a bit of a pain. Since money is not an issue, you might as well spend more on a…

I don't think your number is accurate, at least not for western europe. Also you have to compare what you save in terms of purchase price (and electricity cost, because you drive a lighter car) with what it costs for renting over the lifetime of the car. The salary level doesn't really factor in directly.

The real reason more people don't do it, is that a car is a status symbol and most people like wasting money on it. Musk knows that and uses it for his PR. And of course still not many people are used to the new cost pattern of electric cars.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#397

Post by tonyedgecombe »

volta83 wrote: post #391
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may or may not be exaggerating but if you aren't then you are definitely an outlier. Which kind of sucks for you because it's going to be hard to keep doing this when the rest of the world has moved on.

Outlier in which sense ? There is a lot of people from southern Europe and northern africa (morroco, algeria, etc.) living in central Europe (France, Belgium, Holland, Germany, Switzerland, etc.). There is a lot of people from East Europe (Poland, Ukraine, Czec republic, Croatia, Turkey) living in Central Europe as well. How do you think these people travel to visit their families every couple of months ? They do 100…

How do you think these people travel to visit their families every couple of months ? They do 1000km per way trips with the car.

The average annual milage across the whole of the EU is 12,000Km per year, it's even lower in Eastern Europe.

Most people aren't making these sort of trips regularly.

You are an outlier.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#398

Post by kazen44 »

hooande wrote: post #234
cs702 wrote: post #132

Whatever you may think of Tesla and Musk, you have to agree that they've accomplished something rather incredible. Few would have thought this possible not that long ago: * 185K vehicle deliveries in Q1, +109% versus a year ago [a] * 2.7K supercharger stations, +41% versus a year ago * 24.5K supercharger connectors, +44% versus a year ago * 92 MW of solar generation deployed in Q1, +163% versus a year ago * 445 MWh o…

i'm not trying to be snide, but it's worth noting that so much of this is fueled by government subsidies and investments into electric vehicle technology. And the current administration is looking to at least double that investment. Things are going to be great for Tesla, but what happens when the subsidies stop? In a sense, a lot of Ford's growth was fueled by government investment in new roads. Ford kept growing af…

mind you ford was in a completely different situation in the early 1900's. they made an entire new mode of transportation available to the masses that cut down travel times considerably. most people commuted on foot or by train prior to the car.

this massive change of transportation is not what is happening with Tesla.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#399

Post by 3dee »

volta83 wrote: post #375
LordDragonfang wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the European market the range advantage might not be a big deal, but it's a major selling point in the American market. Probably the biggest concern I hear from people about going electric-only is range anxiety - the notion that they might need to drive a long distance on a whim and worry they might be "stranded" with no battery, regardless of the actual likelihood of that. With America's generally poor public tra…

> In the European market the range advantage might not be a big deal, It wouldn't be a big deal if charging time was I do occasionally (once per month or two months) go somewhere that's 800km away. Driving at 180-200km/h avg speed and refueling once that's a 5 hour trip. If I have to drive at 120 km/h and charge multiple times I'm looking at > 8h trip or more. I also drive to some places at 300km distance or so for t…

This is exactly the reason why I still have doubts about EVs (for now).

While hydrogen cars are less efficient I still think it will be a better option for the near future.

In a city like Stuttgart people have to park in double rows. Unless they can fully charge their EV in < 5 minutes those cars will never convert from combustion engines to a battery car. Hydrogen will solve this much faster than batteries.

Re: Tesla Q1 2021 Results

#400

Post by hurril »

habeebtc wrote: post #208
cs702 wrote: post #132

Whatever you may think of Tesla and Musk, you have to agree that they've accomplished something rather incredible. Few would have thought this possible not that long ago: * 185K vehicle deliveries in Q1, +109% versus a year ago [a] * 2.7K supercharger stations, +41% versus a year ago * 24.5K supercharger connectors, +44% versus a year ago * 92 MW of solar generation deployed in Q1, +163% versus a year ago * 445 MWh o…

I have two separate and (mostly) unrelated feelings. Musk has done something remarkable as you say. At the same time, the market cap is nuts and a portent of doom. Bigger than all car companies combined, by market cap? A market crash could take down Tesla and set back electric car adoption by 20 years.

No, a market crash would not touch Tesla as the stock and the company are two different things. The fact that a lot of people want to pay top dollar to own a share of the pie is not the Tesla operations churning out cars (or not.)
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