Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

investor.lyft.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 350 posts

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#281

Post by bagels »

moralestapia wrote: post #93
elpakal wrote: post #73

I learned to drive in Mexico at 13, where there are almost literally no rules or traffic signals (see the black arrow on the wall? that means don't stop). I remember thinking about how different things were when trying to get my driver's license in US at age 16 - almost easier - in spite of how many more rules there were. I wonder how self-driving cars perform when trained in a world of rules and order and are then t…

>where there are almost literally no rules or traffic signals ... That's a lie, though. The meme that México is an uncivilized place is dumb and doesn't hold much substance. Edit: Downvote me all you want, GP's statement is laughably easy to disprove. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The one time I went to Mexico, my taxi driver nearly crashed in to a police car because he and the police car both ran their stop signs at a four way stop. The police didn't pull him over, it's a normal occurrence, apparently.

There was more mayhem, but that one is illustrative.

In my experience, the laws are not as closely adhered to as I have seen in other places.

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#282

Post by totetsu »

ehnto wrote: post #249
mannykannot wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree (and nor am I certain you are right), but if that is so, then there are some follow-on issues: 1) The system still has to react safely to pedestrians, cyclists and other entities outside of the network. 1.1) During the transition period, that is going to include vehicles driven by people (I do not think it will be feasible to ban the latter before self-driving vehicles are commonplace, except possibl…

I wonder if the software industry has it in itself to produce a safe intra-vehicle network that wouldn't be taken advantage of, either by malicious actors or the manufacturers. I am sure there is a technically sound protocol someone can come up with, but it would have to survive the corporate food chain, proprietary advances, and the three letter agencies.

Would we see the same dynamic we are seeing now with "net neutrality" and fast lanes for certain endpoints? Like if you pay for a premium service included in the BMW package, you get to travel at full speed, while the test of the vehicles are artificially slowed down. Or if you are on your way to Disney land with a paid ticket, all the stop lights will change in your favor.

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#283

Post by SquareWheel »

hijklmno wrote: post #269

How long will this game of musical chairs go on? Technologically we are not there yet. What is called as AI by all these self-aggrandizing people is nothing more than glorified "pattern matching". Can the current technology have its use cases? Sure. But calling it self-driving is laughable at best and deceptive at worst.

>What is called as AI by all these self-aggrandizing people is nothing more than glorified "pattern matching"

You can describe humans in exactly the same way.

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#284

Post by pzo »

handmodel wrote: post #256
fgonzag wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you in the freight industry? Because drivers are exactly what is expensive and limits growth right now. there is a humongous supply of trucking jobs, and they are paying really high rates right now (up to 70-80 cents per mile)

Fuel is still wayyyy bigger than the driver. Both would be valuable - but a truck that is 30% more fuel efficient is probably going to save more money than one that doesn't need a driver (but still needs people more loading). There are different estimates everywhere - but I usually see 20-30% of trucking costs are drivers. In other freight industries (cargo ships, trains, etc.) it would obviously be less. https://www…

Another thing is that autonomous truck can drive 24h. In most countries there are regulation how often drivers have to take a break, e.g. in Poland after 4.5h of driving truck driver need 45min break, after 9h there is mandatory minimum 11h break.

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#285

Post by orbifold »

azinman2 wrote: post #272
danielheath wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Autonomous trucks for urban trucking are a pipe dream, but maybe for long-haul routes. That said, it's not at all clear to me that developing autonomous trucks for long interstate routes would be meaningfully cheaper than laying rail on literally every high-traffic route on the planet, which uses perfectly-understood technology and has entirely predictable returns.

We already have a lot of rail in the world, but still have lots and lots of trucks. Is it just not enough rail? Roads are also useful for people in a really dynamic way that rail isn’t (especially for big countries like the US).

There is some path dependency here, trains came earlier than cars and early industrialised nations build rail networks that were far more extensive than they are now. There were also freight trams in cities like Berlin, which delivered cargo to smaller industrial sites in the city.

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#286

Post by eCa »

litoorachure wrote: post #265
Animats wrote: post #186

Uber gave up in December 2020 and sold off their technology to Aurora. Waymo is now offering rides in Phoenix AZ with no "safety driver".[1] "Waymo One is our fully public, fully autonomous ride hailing service. Now anyone can take fully autonomous rides anytime they're in Metro Phoenix. Just download the app and ride right away."[1] Waymo also now has significant non-Alphabet investors, having raised US $2 billion i…

Toyota's interest may not be in Level-5 autonomous taxis. They have a history of striving to fully understand every part of their supply chain; this could be a play at developing advanced in-house driver assists. As an example, I was surprised to learn that Toyota designed their own ECU chips rather than buying off-the-shelf automotive grade MCUs until 2019, when they spun that business off to a subsidiary[1]. They r…

> advanced in-house driver assists

One thing I wish any car manufacturer would do is create a system that helps their users use the turn indicator. It’s an endemic problem here.

Something like an annoying voice telling them that they should have used it immediately after turning. And if they fail to use it in three turns during the same drive they get a mandatory safety briefing before they can lock the car.

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#287

Post by virtue3 »

totetsu wrote: post #282
ehnto wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the software industry has it in itself to produce a safe intra-vehicle network that wouldn't be taken advantage of, either by malicious actors or the manufacturers. I am sure there is a technically sound protocol someone can come up with, but it would have to survive the corporate food chain, proprietary advances, and the three letter agencies.

Would we see the same dynamic we are seeing now with "net neutrality" and fast lanes for certain endpoints? Like if you pay for a premium service included in the BMW package, you get to travel at full speed, while the test of the vehicles are artificially slowed down. Or if you are on your way to Disney land with a paid ticket, all the stop lights will change in your favor.

Thankfully BMW doesn't own the roads.

They do this in LA already, you can choose to be toll'd more (wireless tolls) or you can stay in the normal lanes. I'm much more ok with the regional infrastructure charging it because you have at least a chance at knowing where the money goes.

The car manufacturers would love to have some sort of residual billing for crap like that I'm sure tho.

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#288

Post by bildung »

omgwtfbyobbq wrote: post #15
quickthrowman wrote: post #7

Anyone hawking FSD is a stock promoter (liar). Uber/Tesla/Lyft. Elon Musk claims Tesla FSD will be L5 by end of 2021, but they recently filed a document with the CA DMV stating Tesla FSD is L2 automated. Which one do you think is more realistic, staying L2 by EOY 2021, or magically leaping forward to L5 FSD in 8 months? The only company working on self-driving that I believe when they issue press releases is Waymo, b…

Do you have a link to Elon's FSD claim? He definitely uses ambiguity to his benefit (eg "soon", "by fall/winter/spring/summer" (in which year?)), but I haven't heard anything about Tesla being L5 by the end of 2021.

> Do you have a link to Elon's FSD claim?

Musk said he's 'confident' reaching l5 autonomy by end of 2021 in the Q4 earnings call, which is on youtube.

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#289

Post by throwaway189262 »

Maybe we can finally lay self driving prophecies to rest. Self driven cars will never share the road with human drivers. There's no legal framework for liability. And AI is far from understanding human intentions and speech.

One day we'll have purpose built lanes for robots, maybe. Boring highway routes between big cities will be first.

I think tech wizards will take the easy road and automate planes and ships. There's too much crap and unpredictability on the ground. That's why all the automated military stuff flies or floats, or dives. Skittering along the ground is best left to meat control

Re: Subsidiary of Toyota to acquire Lyft’s self-driving car division

#290

Post by nlitened »

eCa wrote: post #286
litoorachure wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota's interest may not be in Level-5 autonomous taxis. They have a history of striving to fully understand every part of their supply chain; this could be a play at developing advanced in-house driver assists. As an example, I was surprised to learn that Toyota designed their own ECU chips rather than buying off-the-shelf automotive grade MCUs until 2019, when they spun that business off to a subsidiary[1]. They r…

> advanced in-house driver assists One thing I wish any car manufacturer would do is create a system that helps their users use the turn indicator. It’s an endemic problem here. Something like an annoying voice telling them that they should have used it immediately after turning. And if they fail to use it in three turns during the same drive they get a mandatory safety briefing before they can lock the car.

I think the better way would be automated cameras that fine vehicles that turn or change lanes without turning on the blinker beforehand.
Post reply on HN